August 24, 2019, 02:16:12 am

Alternative / Electric bus trial

Started by Barry Drive, June 29, 2017, 04:30:46 pm

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Busnerd

I rode 711 on a 39 today, seemed to have less rattles than 710, although the nearside rear wheel did keep scrubbing the underside of the bus whenever it went over a large bump, will be interesting to see if they decide to order more, and/or keep these ones long term.

triumph

Quote from: Busnerd on October 12, 2018, 10:58:09 pm
I rode 711 on a 39 today, seemed to have less rattles than 710, although the nearside rear wheel did keep scrubbing the underside of the bus whenever it went over a large bump, will be interesting to see if they decide to order more, and/or keep these ones long term.


It would be a pity if non-electrical aspects such as suspension, body durability, and the like were to dominate the evaluation.

The question of moving towards an all electric fleet is interesting. There are aspects less obvious than vehicle evaluation and suitability. A major one relates to recharging, particularly the investment necessary to set up multiple charge points for a for a significant fleet, say 50 buses to start with, but within a few years a great many more, and the power supply thereto. What will be the energy demand? How much will the electricity supply system need to be upgraded to meet that? How much can covering the depot roof with solar help? New feeders and sub-station is a worst case. Overall how cost effective? It is on these aspects rather than direct vehicle supply, operation, and maintenance costs on which the evaluation might turn.  I have seen no recharge data so can't begin to guess at any answers. 

Barry Drive

Checked the contract register. Both the Volvo and Carbridge contracts have been extended to 1 December 2018.

So if not the end of this month, perhaps not long afterwards, allowing time for the buses to decommissioned before being returned to their owners.

King of Buses

Quote from: Barry Drive on October 13, 2018, 09:48:30 am
So if not the end of this month, perhaps not long afterwards, allowing time for the buses to decommissioned before being returned to their owners.


Went past Tuggeranong Depot this afternoon (on a 313 to Lanyon that was running 16 mins early!) and noticed a Bustech in TfNSW livery and a BYD in quasi-TC livery. Given 711 was still in service today, I'd say that 710 and 712 have been unwrapped and are currently being decommissioned.

triumph

Quote from: King of Buses on November 12, 2018, 05:19:56 pm
Given 711 was still in service today, I'd say that 710 and 712 have been unwrapped and are currently being decommissioned.


Might be a good idea to keep a lookout and report any sightings of 711.

King of Buses

Quote from: triumph on November 13, 2018, 12:12:53 pm
Might be a good idea to keep a lookout and report any sightings of 711.



It's out again today.


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Toyota Camry

November 13, 2018, 03:31:23 pm #56 Last Edit: December 21, 2018, 02:11:32 pm by Barry Drive
Today, the below trip was operated by a Renault PR100.2; until recently it had been a regular PR100.2 run, but several weeks ago had been taken over by bus 712. I suspect that bus 712 may not be running; this may be why there was a PR100.2 on it again.

(313) XX:XX Lanyon Market Place to Fraser West Terminus

Toyota Camry

November 13, 2018, 03:34:16 pm #57 Last Edit: December 21, 2018, 02:11:09 pm by Barry Drive
Quote from: Toyota Camry on November 13, 2018, 03:31:23 pm(313) XX:XX Lanyon Market Place to Fraser West Terminus

My apologies, that information was incorrect; these are the correct trips that were operated by 712, but is today was a Tuggeranong PR100.2 again.

(313) XX:XX Lanyon Market Place to Fraser West Terminus
(14) XX:XX Fraser West Terminus to Emu Bank McDonalds

Snorzac

712 has been withdrawn and the wrap has been taken off, this data is irrelevant even before it was withdrawn as the buses were never assigned to a particular shift or driver and any pattern which may have occurred was purely coincidental

Sylvan Loves Buses

I have a pretty good list of routes that the few drivers who did use these buses, but if you want to know them you'll have to private message me.

Bus 503

Quote from: Snorzac on November 13, 2018, 04:25:29 pm
712 has been withdrawn and the wrap has been taken off, this data is irrelevant even before it was withdrawn as the buses were never assigned to a particular shift or driver and any pattern which may have occurred was purely coincidental


No, there are some shifts that do regularly receive 710-712.

Snorzac

But there is no pattern to it, they don't have set shifts for the trial, if the driver is trained and the bus is available then it's allocated to that driver. Particularly in 712s case this is a very limited number of drivers. Any pattern that appeared is purely coincidental.


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Toyota Camry

It must have been a major coincidence that bus 712 was operating those trips on every working day; with those odds, I will be purchasing a lottery ticket.

Busfanatic101

Quote from: Snorzac on November 14, 2018, 05:35:48 am
But there is no pattern to it, they don't have set shifts for the trial, if the driver is trained and the bus is available then it's allocated to that driver. Particularly in 712s case this is a very limited number of drivers. Any pattern that appeared is purely coincidental.


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That is a pattern - bus regularly being driven by select drivers often doing select shifts. While there is some element of chance, some outliers, there are definitely clear trends in allocation and not enough chance to be considered purely coincidental.


I can't believe we're all debating this... seriously

Sylvan Loves Buses

Quote from: Busfanatic101 on November 14, 2018, 01:45:09 pmI can't believe we're all debating this... seriously


Yeah I know right. I know which drivers who were allocated to each bus by face, and so, most of their runs, so it was easy to know which of the routes albeit only really their last few evening runs, but any other time they would use their normal allocated buses - Mostly P2 and Scania/MAN CNG shifts.

Toyota Camry

November 16, 2018, 01:00:02 pm #65 Last Edit: December 21, 2018, 02:09:59 pm by Barry Drive
Bus 711 operated the below trip today.

(7) National Museum to Cohen Street Bus Station

Bus 503

November 16, 2018, 07:21:41 pm #66 Last Edit: December 21, 2018, 10:17:22 pm by Barry Drive
Quote from: Busfanatic101 on November 14, 2018, 01:45:09 pm

That is a pattern - bus regularly being driven by select drivers often doing select shifts. While there is some element of chance, some outliers, there are definitely clear trends in allocation and not enough chance to be considered purely coincidental.


I can't believe we're all debating this... seriously


As far as I can tell, the outliers occur when the driver of a shift is what I call a "fill-in driver", who fills in for the regular driver, which is why reporting those occurrences when the trial buses are operating those shifts is not necessary because it probably won't happen again.

I am wondering if Barry Drive can advise us whether reporting specific times that certain buses can be spotted is allowed, as is being done here. I have a previous personal message stating that reporting specific locations of certain buses is not allowed (when I asked if it was OK to post sightings of the electric buses), but sightings are being reported on PR3s and now the electric buses. Also, it seems that while reporting regular occurrences of certain buses operating the same routes are banned ('shift buses'), it is not banned to report PR3 trips or electric bus trips, so I see it all as being quite contradictory.
Can we please have a clean-up of the muddy rules surrounding this topic?

Sylvan Loves Buses

I can tell you from experience I've been banned for revealing that sort of thing as it's a breach of privacy, so I would say don't risk it.
712 once appeared on a 64N one afternoon, a few minutes right after my regular bus passed my stop only to go the other way at the Livingston intersection. It certainly happened often, but I can agree it probably won't happen again, the trial is very near ending.

Sylvan Loves Buses

Quote from: Snorzac on November 13, 2018, 04:25:29 pm712 has been withdrawn and the wrap has been taken off...


If I hadn't been paying much attention to this page or was still not on this forum, I would've just assumed this was another trial bus or something. Funny to see a bus with the new NSW livery again, looks so different to when it had its 'I'm Electric' wrap on it.
..
Tuggeranong Depot has had a fence upgrade to part of the behind, most of the barbed wired fence is still there, but a similar styled one to Belconnen is there too now.

Such a shame though, really enjoyed the electric buses while they lasted, hope it's not too long before we get them again. (I'm saying this now cause fat chance I'm getting 711 again)

triumph

November 19, 2018, 10:40:53 am #69 Last Edit: December 21, 2018, 02:09:07 pm by Barry Drive
711 out today, At XX:XXam passing Hockey Centre rte 7 to Museum.

Barry Drive

So far there is no further contract variation or purchase contract listed. But given 711's continued use, I'd have to think one of these is likely.

Busnerd

Thanks for getting those photos, I've only seen one very small photo of the TORO in fake TC Livery, so it's nice to have another version of it, still find it weird they even painted them up in that livery to begin with, being a demo you'd think it would stay white, although the blue emu livery is a similar blue so they could still sticker over it and it should match closely enough, unless of course they send it to another airport.

I didn't mind the buses so would be happy to keep them on if TC deems the trial a success and wishes to buy them, although I'd expect they'd possibly want to make some changes to the bodies, although that's just a personal opinion with no basis, but having a single leaf rear door could easily add another 2 seats.

triumph

Quote from: Barry Drive on October 13, 2018, 09:48:30 am
Checked the contract register. Both the Volvo and Carbridge contracts have been extended to 1 December 2018.

So if not the end of this month, perhaps not long afterwards, allowing time for the buses to decommissioned before being returned to their owners.


It is happening for 710 and 712, but what about 711 which is still in service?

Is it simply that the maximum use of 711 before the end of the month is being pursued? Or can it be speculated, due to the original contract being for a 12month trial period, that 711 will remain in service to see out a full 12months service period?

I doubt that acquisition of any of the trial buses is likely. From a fleet perspective, the trial buses are operational orphans requiring separate driver training, different servicing and maintenance requirements, and (particularly 711) different capacities to the present regular fleet buses to integrate into schedules. It has previously been mentioned in this thread that no electric/hybrid fleet order is in place. Further, there is no guarantee, following a tender process, that a near future order would result in a tranche into which the present trial buses could integrate.

Barry Drive

I checked the Carbridge contract to see if it could provide answers. It doesn't.

Only the original contract is published, not the variation  - which is probably where the answer might be found.

The original contract ties the lease term to the first vehicle, but it also stated the second vehicle (711) would be delivered by December 2017.

One thing of note: the contract states TC must deregister the vehicle before handing it back. This has occurred for 710 & 712.

Conclusion: I think 711 will be around for a few more months.

triumph

Quote from: Barry Drive on November 22, 2018, 10:01:05 am
Conclusion: I think 711 will be around for a few more months.


711 was at Cohen Street Bus Station last Tuesday morning - been seen out and about since? Hope so.

Busnerd

November 22, 2018, 02:56:06 pm #75 Last Edit: December 21, 2018, 02:08:14 pm by Barry Drive
Was in service on Northbourne Ave this afternoon.

triumph

711 (assumed, it still had the 'electric' wrap) noted parked in Tuggeranong Depot mid afternoon. There have been no reports of in-service sightings so far this week - has it been out and about?

King of Buses

Quote from: triumph on November 28, 2018, 08:45:58 pm
711 (assumed, it still had the 'electric' wrap) noted parked in Tuggeranong Depot mid afternoon. There have been no reports of in-service sightings so far this week - has it been out and about?


Yes.

fleecyfingers

December 20, 2018, 07:03:00 pm #78 Last Edit: December 21, 2018, 02:07:31 pm by Barry Drive
711 is indeed in service, it completed a northbound 57 this evening.

triumph

December 20, 2018, 11:23:10 pm #79 Last Edit: December 21, 2018, 02:07:10 pm by Barry Drive
Quote from: fleecyfingers on December 20, 2018, 07:03:00 pm
711 is indeed in service , it completed a northbound 57 this evening

Also rte 313 N ex City about XX:XXpm Thurs 20th (yesterday).

Barry Drive

December 21, 2018, 01:45:26 pm #80 Last Edit: December 21, 2018, 08:25:25 pm by Barry Drive
Quote from: Bus 503 on November 16, 2018, 07:21:41 pm
I am wondering if Barry Drive can advise us whether reporting specific times that certain buses can be spotted is allowed, as is being done here.

Can we please have a clean-up of the muddy rules surrounding this topic?

After much thought, can we please not give specific time and route information.

You can continue to give Route number provided a specific time is not mentioned.

For example: "I saw Bus 711 on Route 7 this morning" is acceptable. "I noticed 711 on Northbourne Ave this afternoon" is also acceptable.

"Bus 711 operated Route 5 departing Belconnen at 12:15 today" would not be acceptable (if such a route existed).

Existing posts which do not meet this standard will be edited or removed.

Thank you.

Bus 503

711 was on a morning route 319 on Friday and was on a route 171 in the evening.

Sylvan Loves Buses

Walked by T depot today. Didn't see 710 nor 711, so I'd assume 711 is either in use today or has been moved somewhere I couldn't see.

Bus 503

711 is in service today and was on route 935 this morning.

Toyota Camry

Quote from: Bus 503 on December 26, 2018, 11:42:58 am
711 is in service today and was on route 935 this morning.

It also operated route 200 to Gungahlin Place this afternoon; however in line with this site's new censorship policy, I will not be stating which trip.

Busnerd

It also operated a southbound 200 presumably shortly after, saw it passing by my place in the mid afternoon.

Sylvan Loves Buses

Assuming 710 hasn't been re-wrapped, 711 was sitting between some other buses this evening just gone as I passed by Tuggeranong Depot.

triumph

711 was out and about today. Was on a route 14 early afternoon.

Barry Drive

Last confirmed in-service sighting of 711 was Thursday 14 February.

lukeo25

I spotted 711 this evening on Drakeford Drive / Tuggeranong Parkway going toward Tuggeranong out of service.

King of Buses

A naked quasi-TC liveried BYD Toro (believed to be 711) was spotted on the back of a low loader this afternoon believed to be heading out of Canberra. So that's that.

triumph

Now that operation of the 3 trial buses is concluded, presumably TC will complete evaluation.
At present (to my knowledge), a missing evaluation input is that of customer experience and views. I doubt that TC will seek this unless prompted by significant influencers.
Perhaps now is the time to proactively submit customer experience feedback to TC before the evaluation is completed purely on technical, economic and industrial aspects.

Sylvan Loves Buses

Well if they want my opinion, they need to use a different perfume on the BYD's.