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Network 2020

Started by Barry Drive, February 05, 2020, 11:53:34 AM

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Barry Drive

February 05, 2020, 11:53:34 AM Last Edit: February 05, 2020, 12:15:45 PM by Barry Drive
Transport Minister Chris Steel has revealed that there may* be bus network changes from the start of Term 2 (28 April 2020).

Changes include reinstating Tuggeranong suburbs link to Woden via Yamba Dr & Athllon Dr, two routes to connect Gungahlin suburbs to Belconnen, alteration to R5 and other miscellaneous changes.

Full route map available here.

Transport Canberra announcement here.

Canberra Times article here.

* start date is not yet a certainty:
Quote from: undefinedConsultation is currently taking place with the workforce to enable us to finalise driver shifts. This will allow the timetable to be finalised. We expect to release timetables online in mid-March 2020.

Sundays will remain with two-hourly suburban routes:
Quote from: undefinedIncreased weekend services which will see local route frequency increased on Saturdays during the day

Disappointed they still haven't addressed the lack of direct peak services to Belconnen and Gungahlin.

triumph

Interesting and mostly logical proposals.

Commenting on some aspects:
Routes 23 and 24 extending to Belconnen tends to validate my comment some time ago about the Great Barton Highway Divide.

The developing suburb of Strathnairn gets no service yet. This contrasts with Denman Prospect which received a service almost immediately. Then there is Gininderry next to Strathnairn coming up.

Route 31 was supposed to go through Lawson when the road was sufficiently developed - this is not indicated on the map.

The pleasant cruise around the lake and along the Parkway on routes 180 and 181 will be no more N of Cotter Rd.

Route 18 proposals are very interesting. At present the outbound route from Gungahlin passes through the middle of Mitchell via Lysaght and Brookes Sts to terminate adjacent to the Epic and Racecourse Light Rail stop, in Randwick Rd at Flemington Rd (some with detours to Bimberi). The return run doubles back at the Racecourse stop and omits Brooke and Lysaght Sts by travelling on via Sandford St into Hoskins St.
The map shows the proposed route omitting Brookes and Lysaght Sts. (at various times in the past, other patterns included Brookes St only, and as now proposed - seems ACTION/TC have doubts as to how to serve Mitchell). Logically Brookes St seems to reach more of Mitchell but it does have the disadvantage of congestion and narrowness.
What is to become of the Racecourse stop? Will it revert to Raceday diversions and specials? Or will the Epic and Racecourse light rail stop be considered sufficient?
This will be the first bus route to significantly parallel the Light Rail between the proposed Mitchell Light Rail stop past 3 Light Rail stops and the Dickson Interchange. One wonders what contractual issues that raises with Light Rail? Will the bus be only express, or will it stop at intermediate points? Likely, I think that Epic would be a stop even if the rest is express.
I guess all will be revealed in due course.

Whilst assurances have been regularly made of construction of a Michell Light Rail stop near Sandford St, the proposed extension of route 18 to Dickson implies that this may not happen any time soon.

Driver consultation - this has been underway for months now. A senior driver told me well before Christmas that they were being asked to nominate their preferences.




ajw373

Quote from: triumph on February 08, 2020, 12:15:15 AMThis will be the first bus route to significantly parallel the Light Rail between the proposed Mitchell Light Rail stop past 3 Light Rail stops and the Dickson Interchange. One wonders what contractual issues that raises with Light Rail?

There will be no contractual issues due to the way the light rail system is contracted out. They get paid a fixed amount of money to run the service. They don't get paid by passenger loading nor do they get the fares.

To me route 30 is the one that needs to be extended to the City in parallel with light rail. So silly to force a change so close to town The only time it might make even half sense is when light rail is extended, but even then extended to Woden and Russell.

Sylvan Loves Buses


Barry Drive

February 13, 2020, 12:42:53 PM #4 Last Edit: February 13, 2020, 12:49:05 PM by Barry Drive
Quote from: triumph on February 08, 2020, 12:15:15 AMThe developing suburb of Strathnairn gets no service yet. This contrasts with Denman Prospect which received a service almost immediately. Then there is Gininderry next to Strathnairn coming up.

Route 31 was supposed to go through Lawson when the road was sufficiently developed - this is not indicated on the map.
Denman Prospect was lucky. Many new suburbs wait a lot longer for a bus service: just ask those living in Jacka who still don't have one!

There are whispers of something happening soon regarding services to Strathnairn: stay tuned. (BTW, the other suburb is Macnamara, "Ginninderry" is merely marketing.)

The Route 31 variation was shown as using Stockman Av then Tenterfield Av to join Aikman Drive. However no work has commenced on Tenterfield Av and is probably not likely in the next 12 months, so that option has been removed.

Re: Route 18 - although it will run Northbourne/Federal Hwy/Flemington there is no certainty it will stop anywhere between Dickson and Mitchell. The reasoning for the change is to reduce transfers when accessing Mitchell, including for travel from Belconnen. Therefore there is no need to stop anywhere else (and let's ignore anyone who wants to travel from Downer or Watson).

Given most of the changes involve adding services or extending routes, it seems likely these changes will require additional buses. If this is the case, there may be fewer bus withdrawals than previously expected until this new network is in place.

Northside

Overall, I think the changes are pretty sensible. I'm glad they've sorted out the Mitchell mess, although I would have assumed they would have kept with the Brooke St route. A couple of changes I'd like to see:

A. Now that the 73 extends to Woden, it may as well make the slight detour along Melrose Dr and Botany St, to bring back those relatively well patronised stops.
B. I still think North Gungahlin is a bit of a mess, and have made the following suggestions:

19,20 - Route via Paul Coe Cres - better access the Ngunnawal shops
24 - Gungahlin to Casey via Nicholls - faster route for Overall Ave and provides access to Casey shops from Nicholls
25,26 - Casey, Taylor Loop - provides direct access to Moncrieff and Taylor via Mirrabei Dr. Rationalised route in Casey, including faster and more frequent services through the middle of the suburb. Horse Park, Plimsoll and Jabanungga are too close to warrant a route each.
27 - Gungahlin to Casey via Amaroo, Moncrieff and Ngunnawal - better coverage through Moncrieff
28 - Gungahlin to Belconnen via Ngunnawal, Casey Shops, Gold Creek and McKellar - Ngunnawal now has one route covering most of the suburb, with faster journey times. Better connections from other routes to Belconnen at Casey Shops


Sylvan Loves Buses

If only Tuggeranong Valley could be as congested as that like it once was...

triumph

Quote from: Barry Drive on February 13, 2020, 12:42:53 PMDenman Prospect was lucky. Many new suburbs wait a lot longer for a bus service: just ask those living in Jacka who still don't have one!
And there was I thinking that perhaps there was no luck, just a very influential developer of the suburb.

triumph

March 02, 2020, 11:03:04 PM #8 Last Edit: March 04, 2020, 11:20:57 AM by Barry Drive
New route 903 commenced today using both Hino Ponchos. Two morning services extend to Macgregor Primary school. Likewise two afternoon services commence from that school.

Travelled this morning on both a school and a non-school service using both Ponchos.

No passengers other than me. No doubt, as the buses circulate, the public will notice and start using the services.

At Strathnairn there is only marked stops at the nominal terminus with one sporting a timetable. Kippax on the other hand had no timetable and the Information Screen (PID) did not show route 903s. On-bus there is audio for next stop (only active on part of route following existing routes and bus 100) but the buses are not fitted with PIDs. Externally there is front destination (Strathnairn 903 on 100, Transport Canberra on 101 at time I rode) but no side or rear destos (sign writing on the buses partially covers this by referring to Gininderry).

Thought I read somewhere that buses could be 'hailed' in Strathnairn but my driver was not aware of that.

triumph

The TC website has the announcement of postponement of the update to network 2019 from April to a future indeterminate time.
Of course, this is a consequence of the virus and a desire to avoid the confusion of a new TT at this time.

triumph

Quote from: triumph on March 24, 2020, 10:36:24 PMThe TC website has the announcement of postponement of the update to network 2019 from April to a future indeterminate time.
Of course, this is a consequence of the virus and a desire to avoid the confusion of a new TT at this time.
The current opinions I have heard this week is that the revised network 2019 will now commence at the end of the forthcoming school holidays. This is still probably subject to there being no 2nd wave corona virus in the meantime.

ajw373

Quote from: Barry Drive on February 13, 2020, 12:42:53 PMDenman Prospect was lucky. Many new suburbs wait a lot longer for a bus service: just ask those living in Jacka who still don't have one!


I know this is a very late reply, but really there is no need for a bus service through Jacka. Considering the size of what has been built thus far and the lack of a road suitable for a bus it would be pointless. Jacka is well services by bus stops on Horse Park Drive. There are parts of suburbs bigger than Jacka, including the section diagonally opposite in Amaroo that are further away from a bus stop.

I have no doubt that when the rest of Jacka is built and there is a main road of sorts it will see a service through it.

triumph

Quote from: Barry Drive on February 13, 2020, 12:42:53 PMGiven most of the changes involve adding services or extending routes, it seems likely these changes will require additional buses. If this is the case, there may be fewer bus withdrawals than previously expected until this new network is in place.

TC is promoting '692 new services each weekday'from mid July. What is a service? Presumably a single trip in one direction at say about 3/4hr per trip (including driver breaks etc). Thus each existing bus in the fleet, on average, will need to cover approximately 1 3/4 additional services per day taking up about an additional 1 1/3hr of utilisation. As most of the new deliveries have been accompanied with retirements, it seems that TC envisages much greater utilisation of the existing fleet. Apparently, with careful timetabling and maintenance scheduling TC is confident of achieving this substantial increase in productivity. But perhaps the fall back position is the Fyshwick retirement home.

Barry Drive

The question of how many more buses will be needed has been the topic of some off-forum discussions.

The main constraint is depot size - there is very little space left at either depot for more buses, although a few could be squeezed in at Tuggeranong.

I do not expect any buses will be brought back from the dead, instead they may well boost the fleet size by not withdrawing beyond a certain point.

We should know soon when the next batch of Scanias enter service.

Sylvan Loves Buses

Just had a sqizz at the revised network map and it's great to see they're bringing back some things the networks have been lacking for some time.
A big thumbs up for:
  • Route 18's extension to Dickson (this will now mean I have an alternative way of getting to Gungahlin other than Belconnen)
  • The 23/24, and a couple 40's improvements.
  • The return of the (sort of) Network '02 64/66/67 up Athllon and Yamba
  • A Hospital bus for Wanniassa, Oxley and south-east Kambah people
  • The 59 replacing the R5 to the City
  • And of course the 600-odd extra buses on the weekdays. Not sure how they're gonna pull that off with how many problems have occurred in the past with that kind of promise.
    Checked on a 62 timetable the other day from 2002ish and they were every 40 minutes off-peak. Although the network was smaller and we had fewer buses or whatever, I'll be surprised if we don't have a repeat of the past few disasters.

Sad face to:
  • Lawson
  • Symonston (again...)
  • South Fyshwick and basically Fyshwick in general for South Canberran people (again...)
  • 902 again if it does the same shit and not operate Mondays/Tuesdays and only every 90 minutes and at the exact same time as the R6 on weekends...
  • Anketell Street - although it is good to see a bus stop outside The Good Guys on the alternative side instead. Hope they number the stop #1 as we somehow still don't have one even though 2/3 are up the road and 9 is before it.

Just checking out the 66. The route now is pretty long and they're extending it again? They really should rethink that route. Still can't believe it takes 20 minutes to get from Coombs into Wright and they still want it longer?

King of Buses

Route 902 will operate 7 days a week.

Stop 1 is Tuggeranong Interchange Plt 9/10. It has made an appearance in the past when special events services have made it into the data feed for apps.

ajw373

Quote from: Barry Drive on February 13, 2020, 12:42:53 PMDenman Prospect was lucky. Many new suburbs wait a lot longer for a bus service: just ask those living in Jacka who still don't have one!

Another (starting to get off topic) post about Jacka, but there is a DA in at the moment for two new stages, and for the first time it is clear what the road network will look like. It confirms what I always suspected that the current part of Jakka will never have a bus stop in it.

Basically Roden Cutler Drive will continue north and then cut west towards Taylor. It will pass a massive sports field complex (not part of this DA)opposite the current end of the road before the start of the new residential area. Roden Cutler Drive will then run onto Romberg Way which has been built. Another road will then go from where these two meet and head down to the existing stub intersection on Horse Park Drive.

I would suggest any future bus route would logically follow this road rather than enter any of the suburban streets.

Bus 400

Participating in being a rebel (that's how I roll). 

Actually in the DA is a public transport proposal in the application. 2 sets of stops are proposed on an extended Roden Cutler Dr.

http://203.9.249.10/e-registerfiles/pubnote/pdf/PLAN-201936527-TRAFFIC_PUBLIC_TRANSPORT-01.pdf

Sylvan Loves Buses

Got the timetables, yay - at least the colour coding is on both sides this time, although the grey again is a bit yuck.

Had a thorough look through the all the routes that I knew would affect me. Most importantly after god knows how long (7 years or something), the morons finally decided to pull their thumbs out of their asses and not have similar routes leave the interchanges at the same time (most notably 70/71/72/73). Other stuff I've mentioned in the past looks great and too bad for Hospital Road and people with wheelchairs who will have to climb the hill :(.

This is the first network that has put a smile on my face at first glance since Network '06. Next job is to study the routes for Renault's, that'll have to wait until after next week however.

Sylvan Loves Buses

Well I just witnessed the strangest of things. Even now I still refer to the 70/71 as 60/62, can't get it out of my head. Seems I'm not the only one, as I've been scanning Anytrip all morning and what at first seemed like a bus returning to the depot, suddenly turning around and went back up Tuggeranong Parkway. I would think it is illegal to u-turn at the intersection near the Kambah Fire Station, and ridiculous with a bus - I wanted to hope that it was as a glitch in the GPS but no - would be nice if the Network '98 62 could come back :P

triumph

Experienced the revised Tuggeranong Interchange approach (Soward, Athllon, N end of Anketell) avoiding part of Anketell Street on a route 76 service. This is a bit of a disaster with several additional traffic lights to negotiate and a considerable time involved. I think that this is a disadvantage for the majority of passengers, particularly those connecting on at the Interchange, but the additional stops might benefit a few.

The outcome is that public transport users have been disadvantaged to the benefit of other interests and consequently public transport is made that little bit less attractive.



 

triumph

There are quite a few subtle changes not highlighted by TC publicity in the 2020 network revision.

Some that I have noticed are:
The on-line TC timetable for 40 series (except 43) services no longer extend to Emu Bank 'Bus Station' to terminate or commence from Eastern Valley Way 'Bus Station. Except for Radford School PM starting services, services start/finish at Belconnen Interchange.
Likewise the services terminating at Gungahlin Valley (the layover, not the school stop, and which were shown in the 1919 on-line TT but not operated) have been regularised in the on-line TT to terminate at Gungahlin Place.
Certain regular services have school variations, eg rte 59, rte 40 (added), and rte 41 (extended to service schools on former route). Peculiarly both rtes 40 and 41 newly added/extended school services are unidirectional, so probably dedicated school services fill in the opposite direction.
Route 18 does service intermediate stops between Mitchell and Dickson Interchange. Also some services divert to Bimberi in eachdirection. Formerly Bimberi was a terminating extension from Mitchell, and later, only served outbound from Gungahlin when the service was extended to Epic and Racecourse. 
No doubt that are quite a few other similar subtle details to be found.

triumph

Drove along Randwick Rd today and noted that the stop near Epic and Racecourse Light Rail stop, formerly used by rte 18 services, still has the pole marked as a bus stop, but the blade has been removed. There seems to be no alternative stop in adjacent Flemington Rd, but perhaps the Epic bus stop in the entry area is still available. The rte 18 bus I travelled on recently did not enter that area.
At the Canberra Racecourse, the stop in an off-road area (further along Randwick Rd) remains in position.  This implies that some Raceday specials (incl rte 18 diversions?) will continue as needed. Time will tell.

Busnerd

It is my understanding the 18 doesn't stop at EPIC and doesn't use Randwick Rd either. I would have expected a new stop/sign to go up at EPIC so that it could stop in either direction on the off chance someone wanted to get the bus there outside of an event.

I would agree that it would divert to either/or during events, once events actually return to both locations.

triumph

Quote from: triumph on September 22, 2020, 12:58:14 AMThere are quite a few subtle changes not highlighted by TC publicity in the 2020 network revision.

Some that I have noticed are:
.......
Certain regular services have school variations, eg rte 59, rte 40 (added), and rte 41 (extended to service schools on former route). ......

Update: The school diversions of rte 59 is noted at the end of the TC description of improved weekend services as discontinued after the current holidays because of traffic congestion.

Also the rte 31 starting in the afternoon from Kaleen Primary then via St Michaels Primary will be swapped to start from St Michaels, again traffic congestion is cited as the reason. The foot note K in the printed timetable is mixed up as it says starting from Kaleen then via St Michaels 8min earlier. Or TC now into time travel...?

Perhaps the Liberal Party in the election offering of restoring school services, should also explain how the school congestion problem hampering both school and regular services, and the negligible use (see some of my previous posts over the last year or so) of some existing services will be tackled.

Bus 503

Was wondering what routes are currently regularly serviced by STAGs?
The routes I know of are:
R2, R4, R5, R6, R8, R9 (?? were used in the previous network at least), 80, 81
Any others?

Snorzac

Generally relegated to R2, 4, 5 and 6. There is at least one R9 and occasionally seen on an evening R3.

Stan butler

A steer tag doing an R3 would prove to be a challenge - especially around the Brindabella circuit area.  Also, when TC had that detour with the immediate turn left after leaving the airport terminal area - and the subsequent roundabout just after that left turn.

 I don't think many drivers could do that turn and that roundabout in a steer tag.

triumph

Subtle change to R6 and 902 is in the 18/7/20 Woden, Weston and Molonglo TT booklet route maps and also in the on-line TT maps for these routes.
Under the previous TT these routes used Hospital Rd. TC in Service Alerts announced stop closures due to Hospital Rd works from 25th May 2020. The works are still on going and an end date was said to be unknown. Subsequently the 2020 TT maps for these two routes showed the diverted route thus the diversion can now be said to be the formal route.
In comparison the Corinna Street stop for a number of routes remains closed but Corinna St is still shown on the on-line TT maps.