Whitlam route commences 31 January

Started by Barry Drive, January 21, 2022, 11:15:00 AM

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Barry Drive

New GTFS has been released and it includes the new Route 47 described as "Whitlam Denman Loop".

Anytrip is showing three sets of stops on Sculthorpe Av as well as John Gorton Drive after Hazel Hawke Av, so that confirms route will use Coppins Crossing to access Denman Prospect.

No timetable showing on TC website yet, so can't provide details of running hours, frequency or exact route.

narc855

Is 46 a bad number?
They failed to make it logical again...

triumph

Google maps now have some stops marked. The position of the stops in John Gorton Drive infer that the route indeed will use Coppins Crossing and also originate in Belconnen. A peculiarity is that the stops in John Gorton Drive (one in each direction) are shown a very long way apart and clearly not a geographical pair. An indication perhaps that Google maps are not yet comprehensive, or that TC is still to finalise some locations.

vnguyen

The timetable and map is up on TC website under the interim January section . It seems to run hourly.

Barry Drive

Quote from: Barry Drive on January 21, 2022, 11:15:00 AMNo timetable showing on TC website yet, so can't provide details of running hours, frequency or exact route.
To answer my own questions: hourly, 7am to 7pm (Mon-Fri), and each loop takes 52 minutes.

Sylvan Loves Buses

No mention of what happens if the bridge gets flooded by the Monoglo River.
Also no bus stop on Hazel Hawke, how rude.

narc855

Quote from: Sylvan Loves Buses on January 25, 2022, 02:48:37 PMNo mention of what happens if the bridge gets flooded by the Monoglo River.
Also no bus stop on Hazel Hawke, how rude.

There is only one possibility - services will be canceled.

vnguyen

Quote from: narc855 on January 25, 2022, 05:00:16 PMThere is only one possibility - services will be canceled.

Or the route will run only to Whitlam and return to Belconnen.

Sylvan Loves Buses

I understand what they've done, it makes sense for it to continue to Denman, but they shouldn't advertise a route that has the chance of it not fully running to a significant section if the weather doesn't permit it to.
Say for exmaple it is one of those days where we have a freak-flash-flood thunderstorm and the bridge was out of service. Firstly if a southbound bus was on the way and not yet made aware that the bridge wasn't operational, I don't see many ways for it to U-turn. The other side has a small U-turn opportunity, but as far as I can see on google maps, there's nothing like that except at the top of the hill. If this service happened to have an artic on it, then...
Secondly you then have a passenger trying to get home to Witlam/Denman from either and all of a sudden an advertised service is not operating anymore. I remember a similar discussion to this in the past where it could detour via Tuggeranong Parkway, but this would increase the delay by at least 20 minutes (assuming no other accidents occur). If this isn't part of a contengency plan, then said passenger would have to either travel an extra <2 hours to get home or call a cab/uber. TC is always encouraging more people to ride the buses, but I don't see how this helps them with that.

Bus 400

What if Sullivan's Creek floods & cuts the light rail off? This is more likely from flash flooding. 

There's plenty of warning of flood waters approaching Coppins Crossing. Remembering NCA/BOM/MDBA keep an eye on the flow of the Molonglo River. Assisting in managing flooding downstream. 

TCCS would be advised of the opening of Scivener Dam to set up road closures. Presume TC would be aware of pending road closures & plan accordingly. From running the vans via the Parkway or to meet a rapid at City/Belconnen.

Busnerd

It would be most likely it would either be one of the three options in the event of the causeway being closed:

1. Service cancelled
2. Service only operates to Whitlam, then back to Belconnen
3. Service diverts via Tuggeranong P'way/Cotter Rd

Sylvan Loves Buses

I was hypothetically over-exaggerating, we have been experiencing some rather freakish weather over the past couple of years. Given the street images I saw on google I would say with an immediate huge downfall the bridge looks like it would quickly overflow. I remember one of those rainfalls we had some time ago where Callam street became immediately floded by only a minute of so of rain and wind - I was thinking of something as quick as that where the bus would arrive at the bridge too soon for anyone even comms to react to the event.
Still however, in the event of something like that, that second option would still be quite unfair for the unsuspecting patron waiting around Denman, the first I doubt it. I dont want say anymore, but if something like this happens I'll be keen to see what the gps says on anytrip.

narc855

Quote from: Sylvan Loves Buses on January 26, 2022, 09:18:19 PMI was thinking of something as quick as that where the bus would arrive at the bridge too soon for anyone even comms to react to the event.

People will know that there will be heavy rain and close the road beforehand.

There are some bues using the crossing for deadrun purposes now so it should not be a serious problem tbh.

Northside

A bus that runs for 90% of the time is better than no service at all. The dead-zone between Molonglo and Belconnen should have been bridged ages ago.

Remember that the majority of water coming past Coppins is mainly from the release at Scrivner, so is under the control of icon water and will provide plenty of warning before any roads are closed.

I've seen buses (not artics) havingnto u turn on both sides, so it is possible. Albeit with many movements back and forth!

Bus It

I would have really liked to see this route continue on to Weston as well. Image the number of extra people you would be able to connect (Coombs, Wright and Weston residents) with Belconnen if they just ran it an extra 10 mins up the road from Denman to Weston.

Hopefully they look at patronage and try to increase it in future revisions.

Northside

Quote from: Bus It on January 28, 2022, 03:56:37 PMI would have really liked to see this route continue on to Weston as well. Image the number of extra people you would be able to connect (Coombs, Wright and Weston residents) with Belconnen if they just ran it an extra 10 mins up the road from Denman to Weston.

Hopefully they look at patronage and try to increase it in future revisions.

Agreed but I'd go further and connect it to Woden. Not the most direct route from Woden and Belconnen, but it'd be a start. You could split the 66 up which would operate from Woden to Denman. Then the 47 operates from Belconnen to Woden via Whitlam, Wright and Coolo. Then the 64 or 65 can take the remainder of the 66 route in Weston Creek.

triumph

Quote from: Bus It on January 28, 2022, 03:56:37 PM.... if they just ran it an extra 10 mins up the road ....
That extra 10min would probably result in the deployment of an additional bus being necessary, not quite so simple.

Would be more practical to implement when the frequency increases, and, to avoid public confusion, integrate with other routes when a network update occurs.

Another routing aspect which could be useful would be to route around Nettlefold St and thence past the markets and Bunnings - a part of Belconnen presently not served. Again, the fly in the ointment might be increasing the round trip time too close to 1 hour.

There is certainly plenty of potential.

Sylvan Loves Buses

I love the idea of continuing it to Woden. A straight bio-directional route rather than a loop service would be much better imo, especially one giving old 49/705 vibes. The 66 is truly long enough as it is, I would say cutting off its Coombs and some of the Prospect sections and giving it to the 47 would make things much tidier.

Bus 400

So on the 27th February, Coppins Crossing was actually closed for a few hours.

TC tweet doesn't mention a diversion. But how was the 47 affected?

narc855

Quote from: Bus 400 on March 06, 2022, 10:04:24 AMSo on the 27th February, Coppins Crossing was actually closed for a few hours.

TC tweet doesn't mention a diversion. But how was the 47 affected?

From this morning's track on Anytrip
47 school diversion uses Tuggeranong Pkwy to service Denman which causes 40 minutes late. Other 47 services terminate at Whitlam.