Infrastructure: areas for possible change?

Started by 743, August 01, 2010, 06:39:51 PM

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743

I've come across a few spots the past couple of weeks where I think improvements could be made. I'm not calling myself an expert in any way, but it might be interesting to hear what others think about these.

Sorry if these have been discussed before, or if I'm posting this in the wrong section...



Location: Ainslie - western corner of Ainslie Ave and Gooreen St.

Issue: It's not remarkably obvious from this panorama but there is a bus stop on the extreme left (Ainslie Ave) and one on the extreme right (Gooreen St). Both stops are serviced by trips that turn left into Gooreen St from Ainslie Ave (2 and 937). I think these stops are a bit close - they're only about 100m apart measured along the bus route.

Idea: Since the stop on Ainslie Ave is used by other route services, I'd say either remove the stop in Gooreen St, or convert it to a school stop if there are School Specials that continue along Gooreen St from the south.



Location: Lyneham - south side of Archibald St west of Ashton St.

Issue: Bus stop is located right on a pedestrian crossing. We're always taught from school days not to cross the road in front of a bus - this crossing however would seem to encourage that practice. While traffic overtaking a stopped bus on the wrong side of the road would be unlikely, you could never rule it out. So basically I think visibility and safety issues are present at this intersection.

Idea: Shift the bus stop at least a bus length's away from the crossing in either direction on Archibald St. It's a pity the shelter is where it is though.



Location: Chisholm - Benham St on the opposite side of the road to the shops.

Issue: There are four separate bus stop signs at this stop - the standard yellow flag, the plinth, the wooden peg and also older blue signs strapped to the light post (there's also the shelter on top of all that). I think that's three too many! The Bus Zone is also an issue - there is only the one sign on the light post as shown in this photo, there is no corresponding end to the Zone along Benham St. In addition, the shelter, flag, plinth and peg are all less than a bus length away from the start of the Bus Zone, meaning the rear end of any bus would be hanging outside the Zone no matter where it pulled up. Technically, the older blue signs are actually outside of the Bus Zone!

Idea: Rationalise stop signage and the Bus Zone!



Location: Parkes - Commonwealth Ave in front of Hyatt Hotel. The three photos from left to right show the progression heading northwards towards the City.

Issue: I once mentioned it elsewhere on the forum, but Bus Lane signage here is inconsistent. A Bus Lane also permits bikes, taxis etc. A Bus Only Lane permits buses only. So basically the above stretch is full of inconsistency - particularly at the end where the sign indicates Bus Lane but the road Bus Only!

Idea: Since there is also an existing bike lane along this stretch of road (as shown in the last photo), then bikes don't really need to be permitted in the Bus Lane. As it's only a short section of road, I'm sure taxis could cope being in the regular line of traffic, so all signage on posts and the road should probably be converted to Bus Only.

Buzz Killington

All very valid points, well expressed and backed up with nice photographic evidence..

Really like the thinking behind this post 743, very well done!

Ed

QuoteWhile traffic overtaking a stopped bus on the wrong side of the road would be unlikely, you could never rule it out.

Three dickheads did exactly that when I was doing a route 6 last Monday. Shame I wasn't wearing the other kind of blue.

Sir Pompously

Over signage at Canberran bus stops is normal. ACTION never take down old signs (Well they used to, but do not anymore). They only install new ones. It is ok, aslong as the signs do not contradict each other.

The undersignage of Bus Zones, Taxi Zones, No Stopping Zones, No Parking Zones etc in the ACT is poor. Most of the time, when signed, they are a mix of old and new styles, only one sign is in place, the signs are un-readable or the sign are incorrect (and some even contradict the other). Those placing the signs get lazy, and place them on the nearest pole instead of erecting a new pole when needed. One thing I would like to know is what happened to the Red Gutter? ADFA has fresh looking Red Gutters, but no where else in Canberra does anymore.

That pedestrian crossing at a bus stop is just wrong. Who the hell decided that that location was the best place to put it? Idiots.

Barry Drive

#4
Quote from: 743 on August 01, 2010, 06:39:51 PM
Location: Ainslie - western corner of Ainslie Ave and Gooreen St.
It's actually Braddon.

Quote
Location: Lyneham - south side of Archibald St west of Ashton St.

Issue: Bus stop is located right on a pedestrian crossing. We're always taught from school days not to cross the road in front of a bus - this crossing however would seem to encourage that practice. While traffic overtaking a stopped bus on the wrong side of the road would be unlikely, you could never rule it out. So basically I think visibility and safety issues are present at this intersection.

From the Australian Road Rules:

172 Stopping on or near a pedestrian crossing (except at an intersection) 
  (1) A driver must not stop on a pedestrian crossing that is not at an intersection, or on the road within 20 metres before the crossing and 10 metres after  the crossing, unless the driver stops at a place on a length of road, or in an area, to which a parking control sign applies and the driver is permitted to stop at that place under the Australian Road Rules.


Which begs the question: is it legal for a bus driver to stop at that stop?

QuoteLocation: Parkes - Commonwealth Ave in front of Hyatt Hotel. The three photos from left to right show the progression heading northwards towards the City.

Issue: I once mentioned it elsewhere on the forum, but Bus Lane signage here is inconsistent. A Bus Lane also permits bikes, taxis etc. A Bus Only Lane permits buses only. So basically the above stretch is full of inconsistency - particularly at the end where the sign indicates Bus Lane but the road Bus Only!

Idea: Since there is also an existing bike lane along this stretch of road (as shown in the last photo), then bikes don't really need to be permitted in the Bus Lane. As it's only a short section of road, I'm sure taxis could cope being in the regular line of traffic, so all signage on posts and the road should probably be converted to Bus Only.
It's actually Yarralumla (Parkes is the other side of the Commonwealth Ave). The only legal signs are the (Bus Symbol) Lane sign. The diamond sign and the road marking are not legally required, so the fact that they are incorrect does not matter. Taxis often use this lane, which they are entitled to do. What they are not entitled to do is stop within the bus zone.

In any event, under the Road Transport (Safety and Traffic Management) Regulation 2000, all ACT bus lanes permit taxis, hire cars and motorcycles: there is no such thing as a "Bus Only" lane.

Quote from: Sir Pompously on August 01, 2010, 08:53:38 PM
ACTION never take down old signs
Signs are the responsibility of Roads ACT, not ACTION.

QuoteOne thing I would like to know is what happened to the Red Gutter? ADFA has fresh looking Red Gutters, but no where else in Canberra does anymore.
The red kerb was not included in the Australian Road Rules, which standardised road rules across Australia. They have been (or should have been) replaced by No Stopping signs. I don't think that red kerbs, by themselves, in ADFA are enforceable.

Although a continuous yellow edge line does signify no stopping (Rule 169).

bubzie

I'm going to add my two cents worth.

Duggan Street, Calwell.
Bus stop placement FAIL.

They are about 150m apart! Ridiculous! Either get rid of one pair, or turn a pair into school stops only! (Not to mention, it is stupid when one passenger gets on at the first stop, then 4 get on at the second stop.)

p_stampy

There is a similar set of stops in Latham, on O'Loghlen st - they're close to each other (as far as I'm concerned), but people get on at both stops.

Buzz Killington

Quote from: bubzie on August 07, 2010, 05:47:07 PM
I'm going to add my two cents worth.

Duggan Street, Calwell.
Bus stop placement FAIL.

They are about 150m apart! Ridiculous! Either get rid of one pair, or turn a pair into school stops only! (Not to mention, it is stupid when one passenger gets on at the first stop, then 4 get on at the second stop.)

Nice commentary

743

Thanks for the feedback everyone. Good to see there are others out there that think of this stuff too.

I think a good audit of bus stops is needed every now and then, particularly at times of network reviews. Problem is you end up with bus stops left over from services of yesteryear, particuarly where trips used to go through intersections or turn at corners, meaning new services that use different combinations of streets often end up with an oversupply of stops.

An idea I like is the retention of old bus stop posts but the removal of the yellow signs from the head. This means they can easily be put back into service in the future - there are a few of these that have a display at eye level reading "This stop is no longer in service" on the very eastern/northern tip of Antill Street, Watson.

smitho

Quote from: Sir Pompously on August 01, 2010, 08:53:38 PM
Over signage at Canberran bus stops is normal. ACTION never take down old signs (Well they used to, but do not anymore). They only install new ones. It is ok, aslong as the signs do not contradict each other.


Understand that bus stop signage and bus shelters have been mainly the responsibility of ACT Roads, not ACTION, for some years. Agree, there is far too much outdated signage around Canberra bus stops....doesn't look good.