Implementation

Started by Bus 400, October 09, 2018, 09:27:15 PM

Previous topic - Next topic

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Bus 400

All road work closures for the light rail finish at different times of the day on Friday 21 December 2018. Whether this means just roadworks or everything is done by then is yet to be seen.

ajw373

That is also the date that the road works outside the Sydney and Melbourne Buildings are due to finish.

triumph

#2
Quote from: Barry Drive on October 24, 2018, 12:52:01 PM
Meant to post this earlier, but I forgot:



Although, I now have my doubts even about construction being complete by December.

Canberra Times today at page 10, Milestones Article. Transport Canberra spokesman is quoted 'that while construction is expected to be completed in December there were additional hoops to jump through before light rail could begin operating. Canberra Metro will need to obtain third party rail accreditation and other independent sign offs before the system begins operations .... We expect that to be in early 2019'

So there we have it. Not this year. One would expect that certifiers etc are engaged with what is happening and thus there should be no surprises regarding compliances and prompt certifications/sign offs.

When it happens, what will be the co-ordination with network 2019, I wonder? Will they go for the risky big bang all on day 1? Or the less risky option of introducing the light rail and settling it in before changing over to network 2019?

Another related question is what is plan B if the light rail suffers a service interrruption of significant length? Ummmm...

Sylvan Loves Buses

Network '19 is to supposedly start in February. If the LR isn't fully ready, here's hoping one of the contingency plans is to have at least 1 Northbourne Avenue Rapid bus service at least to Dickson, otherwise there's gonna be quite a bit more strife than there already is.

Busnerd

Quote from: triumph on October 25, 2018, 11:13:00 PM
Another related question is what is plan B if the light rail suffers a service interrruption of significant length? Ummmm...

Transport Canberra will run replacement bus services in that event, as written in the contracts.

Barry Drive

The last rail was officially laid today. Even though the budget said they were on target for rail to be complete by August. (Vision at 6pm, WIN News).

I accept that projects can take longer to complete than planned. What I have trouble accepting is the inability to admit the timelines are slipping. Are we supposed to believe that back in May they didn't know they were two months late? Rant over.

Yes, if you check the Transport Canberra page it shows Light Rail then new bus network. There has been no mention of an interim network. (Also nowhere has February been mentioned.)

Busfanatic101

#6
Quote from: Busnerd on October 26, 2018, 02:28:38 PM
Transport Canberra will run replacement bus services in that event, as written in the contracts.
Yes! The return of the withdrawn Renaults! (The PR2s I mean).
May the light rail fail lol

ajw373

Quote from: Barry Drive on October 26, 2018, 03:20:06 PM


I accept that projects can take longer to complete than planned. What I have trouble accepting is the inability to admit the timelines are slipping. Are we supposed to believe that back in May they didn't know they were two months late? Rant over.

This has had me baffled too and one area where the government has shoot themselves in the foot. The contract always had operations starting in Q1 2019, which is seem it now will do, subject to approval yet they have been peddling this end of 2018 date for quite a while, for no really apparent reason. Would have been far better to peddle the contract line and if it was possible to bring forward then a bonus.

As for the new bus network, personally I think light rail should be up and running for a good 3 months before they introduce the new bus timetable. Maybe just run the 200's from Civic to Fyshwick, but keep all other routes, including the peak hour 25x's buses until it has bedded in. Far less risky approach, and would in way help de-link the two for those that live in the south.

Busfanatic101

Quote from: Barry Drive on October 26, 2018, 03:20:06 PM
Yes, if you check the Transport Canberra page it shows Light Rail then new bus network. There has been no mention of an interim network. (Also nowhere has February been mentioned.)

The following is from ABC. https://amp.abc.net.au/article/10433006

Quote
"Speaking to ABC Radio Canberra on Friday, she said a new bus timetable scheduled for rollout at the same time would not be delayed, but conceded public transport services could be affected in the interim.

"Once we have a date for light rail services, we will work around that, but we are prepared to have the bus network start," she said.

"And all things being equal, as of today, the bus networks start on the first day of term next year and we'll work around light rail operations and align those two whenever light rail starts.""

This suggests that both light rail and network 19 were to commence together coinciding with the start of school next year (4 Feb), and the new bus network is still intended to start regardless of light rail being ready or not (in which case I would expect buses will run the light rail route until the tram commences operation)

triumph

Quote from: Busnerd on October 26, 2018, 02:28:38 PM
Transport Canberra will run replacement bus services in that event, as written in the contracts.

So Transport Canberra is responsible for Plan B, but how will that duty be discharged?

(I need to become more familiar with viewing contracts, there might be further info there.)

Mention was made in a post of the availablility of withdrawn buses. Realistically would they be available at short notice, roadworthy, checked, fuelled, and registered, ready to go? Seems unlikely, but assuming they are, what about driver availability? At present there doesn't appear to be enough drivers to manage ordinary day to day problems - the evidence is plain, frequent radio appeals for a driver to cover a service. (For that scenario to improve much would require substantial changes to driver standby policy. On present performance this seems unlikely.)

Maybe the odd driver going off duty could be available on overtime immediately and others could be called in. But all that takes time, and the buses actually then have to relocate from the Depots to the Light Rail route to take up service. It seems likely that a replacement service of this nature would take hours to fully implement.

The obvious conclusion is that an immediate ('Plan B') replacement service would likely be provided by cannibilising other services to the detriment/cost of those services' customers, (who, by the way, have mostly prepaid for the services via MyWay credit).

It will be fascinating to observe when it inevitably occurs.

Northside

Interesting. I had assumed that the new Network and the official opening of the LR line would coincide. You can't run Network 19 without the R1 (and running it as a bus route will require more than current bus load that departs Gungahlin every peak hour (at the moment one bus every 3-5 mins for a journey time of over 1 hour return). So about 15 artics at the very least will be required in peak. I'm sure Action will have the ability to make up this shortfall for a short period (ie the beg, borrow and steal method) ie for breakdowns etc. But whether it can do this for long remains to be seen.

Also, running the current red rapid and the LR at the same time seems like a massive overkill and a waste, so I don't see that happening for long if at all, besides maybe a LR 'open day' to get all the gunzels and mums and pops to use that as a leisure trip without disrupting the daily commute.

It will be an interesting decision to make if the LR gets pushed back much past Jan.

One would hope the new network could start before the school term, so any initial teething problems can be ironed out before it hits peak demand once school goes back. But we'll see. I'm never surprised by some of the decisions that get made. Lol

ajw373

Quote from: Northside on October 29, 2018, 05:09:29 PM
Interesting. I had assumed that the new Network and the official opening of the LR line would coincide. You can't run Network 19 without the R1 (and running it as a bus route will require more than current bus load that departs Gungahlin every peak hour (at the moment one bus every 3-5 mins for a journey time of over 1 hour return). So about 15 artics at the very least will be required in peak. I'm sure Action will have the ability to make up this shortfall for a short period (ie the beg, borrow and steal method) ie for breakdowns etc. But whether it can do this for long remains to be seen.

Also, running the current red rapid and the LR at the same time seems like a massive overkill and a waste, so I don't see that happening for long if at all, besides maybe a LR 'open day' to get all the gunzels and mums and pops to use that as a leisure trip without disrupting the daily commute.

Yes it would be overkill to run red rapid and light rail together, however it is risk that is the issue. It would be dumb to start light rail and new network on the same day. Light rail needs time, how much time I have no idea to bed in, and red rapid would make a reasonable contingency short term.

Toyota Camry

I am proposing that if the light rail is open before the new bus network, temporary changes should be implemented; this would remove buses from Northbourne Avenue, and align some services with the new network.

- Weekday -

7 - Operates only between Cohen Street Bus Station and Dickson Interchange.
8 - No longer operates; route taken over via route 39.
30 - Operates only between Cohen Street Bus Station and Dickson Interchange.
31 - Runs via Cowper Street along route 7; extends to National Museum of Australia.
39 - Runs via Lyneham along route 8.
56 - Operates only between Gungahlin Place and Dickson Interchange.
57 - Operates only between Gungahlin Place and Dickson Interchange.
58 - Operates only between Gungahlin Place and Well Station Drive.
200 - Operates only between City Bus Station and Canberra Outlet Centre.
251 - No longer operating; this service operates as route 51.
252 - No longer operating; this service operates as route 52.
254 - No longer operating; this service operates as route 54.
255 - No longer operating; this service operates as route 55.
259 - No longer operating; this service operates as route 59.
712 - Runs via Haydon Drive and Belconnen Way.
714 - Runs via Haydon Drive and Belconnen Way.
Murrays Canberra to Sydney - Runs via Parkes Way, Morshead Drive and Majura Parkway.
Greyhound Canberra to Sydney - Runs via Parkes Way, Morshead Drive and Majura Parkway.

- Weekend -

200 - No longer operating.
956 - Operates only between Gungahlin Place and Dickson Interchange.
958 - Operates only between Gungahlin Place and Dickson Interchange.
980 - Operates only in two parts; between Cohen Street Bus Station and Dickson Interchange, and between City Bus Station and Fyshwick Terminus.
Murrays Canberra to Sydney - Runs via Parkes Way, Morshead Drive and Majura Parkway.
Greyhound Canberra to Sydney - Runs via Parkes Way, Morshead Drive and Majura Parkway.

Bus 400

Why would Murrays & Greyhound need to change & NSW Trainlink to Goulburn not? Why can't people just join these services at the Phillip Avenue stop?

Sent from my SM-T810 using Tapatalk


Northside

Quote from: Toyota Camry on October 29, 2018, 08:13:42 PM
Murrays Canberra to Sydney - Runs via Parkes Way, Morshead Drive and Majura Parkway.
Greyhound Canberra to Sydney - Runs via Parkes Way, Morshead Drive and Majura Parkway.

What do the interstate buses have to do with the light rail? There is nowhere that states buses can't operate along Northbourne once the LR starts. Most times of the day Northbourne is still the quickest route for them.

I think the most likely scenario is that the new Network starts first with the R1 being operated by arctic buses (at almost an on-demand service in peak) rather than the LR. That'd pretty much be the extent of the changes.

They'll also be likely to start the new network on a saturday or sunday to help people adjust too. They may even run the LR for a couple of weekends to start, separate from any network changes, before it becomes the R1.

Busnerd

Personally I think the plan is that they want the LR to start first, give it a chance to prove itself and iron out issues, even a couple of weeks should be a good sign, prior to the bus network starting, that said with the current delays it is possible this won't happen, in which case I would assume TC would have a contingency to run 200 services from Civic to Gungahlin and return, seeing as the currenty 251, 252, 254 etc. won't be in the new network, these passengers would need to change onto 200 buses as well, this may explain the large amount of buses that are laying around not in use but not withdrawn, for this scenario.

This also fits in to the promise of free travel when the new network kicks off, not only to make people happy due to the large amount of changes people aren't happy about, but might relax them from complaining about the LR not being ready, it will be inconvenient but free so they won't complain as much.

Also wondering if the new network will start the first day of school term, or in school holidays to allow a test of the shifts/runs to be undertaken before school returns. Only time will tell.

Barry Drive

Quote from: Busfanatic101 on October 26, 2018, 11:10:27 PM
This suggests that both light rail and network 19 were to commence together coinciding with the start of school next year (4 Feb), and the new bus network is still intended to start regardless of light rail being ready or not (in which case I would expect buses will run the light rail route until the tram commences operation)
That may have been the intention several months ago, but with the ongoing delay in commencing testing south of the depot, I can't see light rail ready to commence for another 5 months maybe.

While I may be proven wrong, I can't see an interim bus network being implemented despite what the Minister may have said. To run R1 with buses would require too many resources that would compromise the rest of the network.

So for now, I think the target would be light rail to run full network testing by March with the line taking passengers by end of March or early April. Bus network changes to be held off until end of Term 1, with the changes starting on 15 April (school holidays) or 29 April as a contingency if testing is further pushed back.

Busfanatic101

Quote from: Barry Drive on November 01, 2018, 12:33:45 PM
That may have been the intention several months ago, but with the ongoing delay in commencing testing south of the depot, I can't see light rail ready to commence for another 5 months maybe.

While I may be proven wrong, I can't see an interim bus network being implemented despite what the Minister may have said. To run R1 with buses would require too many resources that would compromise the rest of the network.

So for now, I think the target would be light rail to run full network testing by March with the line taking passengers by end of March or early April. Bus network changes to be held off until end of Term 1, with the changes starting on 15 April (school holidays) or 29 April as a contingency if testing is further pushed back.


Fair enough, although school bus cuts at least would be much better done at the start of the year when a whole lot of students have just moved schools and don't 'lose' something they had, rather than cut them after everyone has had them for a term.

Barry Drive

Quote from: Barry Drive on October 26, 2018, 03:20:06 PM
Are we supposed to believe that back in May they didn't know they were two months late?

Apparently we are. According to this report (Canberra Times), "a spokeswoman for Ms Fitzharris said the government was told about the delay at the end of October, but did not provide a date." The line being pushed is that Canberra Metro only revised their estimated start date then.

While they are still trying to hint at a January/February start date, and there is financial incentive to the consortium for that to occur, I still don't think that's likely.

Barry Drive


Busnerd

One would assume they will probably start full operations on the first day of the School Holidays, this gives them two weeks to iron out and issues with rostering/timetabling and give the public a chance to ride it during a 'quieter' time where people are away on holidays, then kicking into the full launch on the 27th with the buses too.

Barry Drive

#21
No announcement of a start date, but a GTFS has been published (along with the new bus network) with a start date of 29 April. Probably makes sense to not publish an earlier date, even if CM are planning to accept passengers earlier.

Checking the GTFS, the full schedule is now known (subject to variation).

The first 4 weekday runs are:

● 0543 not in service to Alinga St arrive 0556
● 0600 depart Alinga St arrive GP 0623

● 0548 not in service to GP arrive 0556
● 0600 depart GP arrive Alinga St 0624

● not in service to EPIC arrive 0558
● 0559 EPIC to Alinga St arrive 0612

● not in service to Well Station arrive 0603
● 0603 Well Station to GP arrive 0611

So first actual scheduled weekday service is the short-working EPIC to Alinga St at 0559

If the line is to commence on a Saturday, same first runs apply except the first run departs EPIC 05:58:40

It is possible (or likely) that the EPIC stop although timetabled will not be in use. In which case the short-working depart Phillip Ave at 0600

Sylvan Loves Buses

Quote from: Barry Drive on March 16, 2019, 12:26:09 PMIf the line is to commence on a Saturday, same first runs apply except the first run departs EPIC 05:58:40

They're trying to the exact second too, wow, good luck with that.

Barry Drive

Quote from: Barry Drive on October 26, 2018, 03:20:06 PMI accept that projects can take longer to complete than planned. What I have trouble accepting is the inability to admit the timelines are slipping. Are we supposed to believe that back in May they didn't know they were two months late?
So they did know in May, but either believed that they could catch up or else intentionally misled the public.

https://www.canberratimes.com.au/politics/act/minister-warned-of-risks-to-light-rail-start-date-20190307-p512ji.html

Busfanatic101


Northside

Interesting post from BusAustralia: http://www.busaustralia.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=6&t=89027

Quote from: undefinedPostby ScaniaK320 » Wed Apr 10, 2019 8:57 am

I have been informed from a good source in Canberra that Torrens Transit (Transit Systems) will be supplying a number of Bus Operators and Buses should the opening of the Light Rail System stall or fail during the opening month (End of April 2019)
The operators will travel by buses to Canberra from Adelaide and will assist with transport of passengers, should there be any issue with the Light Rail Network.
As Torrens Transit owns 51 Adelaide Metro painted buses, some of them will be the units sent over to Canberra for this contract.

Not Sure how the private contractors or ACTION feel about this short term contract?

Will be interesting to see IF it is required and if so, how that will all look and work out...

Barry Drive

#26
First week won't matter as full Red Rapid will continue to operate.

I would question the legality of bringing in external buses and drivers. Who is the accredited operator? Transit Systems do not have a RR accreditation in ACT.

Does SA have a Public Vehicle Driver Authority system? (Any interstate authority is acceptable, but do all states have them?)

And then there's the question of how many buses and where to garage them. You'd probably also need some qualified mechanics and a suitable workshop.

My understanding is that there are contingency plans within TC should there be a need for Rail Replacement.

So I'm inclined to not believe this without more information.

Busnerd

I would have assumed that should any issues occur on a weekday that TC would pull buses off other routes, perhaps some lower patronaged rapids to cover the trips, remember to cover the LR route is just a city-gungahlin (current 200), not sure if they have any requirement to try and match the frequency or just go with a 'whatever we can arrange' policy, and whether they believe 1 bus will replace one tram, obviously the capacity of a rigid bus is much lower than the capacity of one LRV.

Barry Drive

#28
Order of departure today from Gungahlin Place:

005 *
012
001
011
013
009 **
007
004
006
003

* First to depart Gungahlin at 8am
** First to depart Alinga St at 8am

For the first hour anyway, departures were spaced at 6 minutes.

Tram 005 was later swapped out for 010; Tram 009 was swapped for 002; Tram 008 was also in service during the afternoon. 014 remained unused.

Barry Drive

And to complete the set, 014 was in service today.