NXTBUS - Real Time Passenger Information System

[Barry Drive]

Most of the diesel MANs are fitted; they have now started on the PR100.2s.

[Bus 400]

What looks to be for the hearing impaired, the stop number is being read out before eacg next stop.

[The Love Guru]

The number is being read out for all types of pax. It's the best way as if I have a friend coming to my nearest stop or whatever I just tell them the stop number rather than trying to figure out which random name nxtbus have given the stop

[smitho]

The four different STAG buses which I drove this week had all been fitted out with Nxtbus kit.

[Buzz Killington]

I've been on a fair few runs when the screen is either switched off or the "bus on diversion" slide is showing. Are drivers just not activating the system and/or not entering the correct runs so the VoiceOver doesn't drive them nuts?

[Barry Drive]

In some buses, the system has been disabled and not all drivers are trained. The "bus on diversion" is determined by the system based on GPS - but sometimes it doesn't reset (even though it's supposed to) and some route mappings are poor. I've seen some modules remain signed in when the bus is back at the depot (also not supposed to happen).

But, despite instructions to the contrary, it wouldn't surprise me if some drivers are choosing not to use the system.

[Buzz Killington]

I can understand not using the system when there's only one or two passengers, but a better option may be to just turn the volume down or off (presuming this is an option) - this way at least the screen is working.

On another note, I don't think I realised that drivers also had their own spoken GPS module as part of the system. One driver was using it on a bus I was on a few weeks ago - a handy feature if you're not familiar with a route but very repetitive if you're on a long road with lots of stops!

[The Love Guru]

They should disable the bus stop announciations, just show there distance away on the screen which it already does.
I have the announcements turned off most of the time but leave the screen up.
The system works well providing the information on the stop locations is accurate. As they say, garbage in=garbage out.

[ajw373]

Just got my first bus with a working NXTBUS system. Three things that struck me as odd is why when announcing the bus stops do they also announce the bus stop number? It is bloody pointless. Secondly I am surprised they have used a text to speech system to generate the recordings. Some of the stop announcements were so poorly done that they were usless. Once that comes to mind is Anzac Park West, Constitution Ave. It is said so fast with wrong pronunciation that the only word I got was west. Lastley and this might upset The Love Guru is I reckon there should be more annoucements. When leaving a stop it should say next stop is xxxx, and then when arriving at a stop this stop is xxx. They should also probably do like TfL does and say this is bus 123 to xyz, next stop....

Now a question the times to the various stops where does this come from? Is it real time or from the timetable? The reason I ask is the bus I got this morning was doing a 702 and I boarded on Northborne Ave/London CCT at 08:14 (according to myway), with the bus leaving shortly thereafter (8 minutes early). From this point it was showing a travel time of 10 minutes to Constitution Ave. Clearly it doesn't take that long I would have thought closer to 2-3. Now with the bus 8 minutes early and with a 3 minute travel time, 10 minutes would be right, which says to me the times are from the timetable, not real time.

Now second question getting OT as mentioned this bus left Civic 8 minutes before it's scheduled departure time (unless of course it was the 7:33 bus running very very very late). Now in the past if buses were early they were meant to wait at designated timing points for the scheduled time, clearly that didn't happen this morning. Was it a case of the driver doing the wrong thing, or do they maybe not care on the 700's?

[The Love Guru]

Much easier to tell someone a stop number rather than trying to guess the name action has given a certain stop, hence the announce it.

Xpresso services DO NOT wait at timing points in the city in the AM and in the suburbs in the PM. Pointless having an express service that just sits waiting for a timetable that cannot possibly be accurate due to varying traffic conditions

[smitho]

Much easier to tell someone a stop number rather than trying to guess the name action has given a certain stop, hence the announce it.

I don't think it is realistic to expect passengers (and drivers) to commit to memory individual four digit bus stop numbers. Most people relate to individual locations by the names of adjoining streets or local landmarks.

[ajw373]

Xpresso services DO NOT wait at timing points in the city in the AM and in the suburbs in the PM. Pointless having an express service that just sits waiting for a timetable that cannot possibly be accurate due to varying traffic conditions

In some ways that makes sense, but for someone like me who gets on in the city it is not much good. It basically means that owing to, as you point out varying traffic conditions my arrival time in Civic is unknown. So to find the next bus to Barton I have to hunt around 3 or 4 different bus stops, with the times shown on at least stop not worth the ink they are written in. And the ACT Government wonders why more people don't get the bus to work.

PS the 700 scenario of not waiting would be more acceptable IF the timetable, both online and in PDF clearly indicated that they don't wait at timing points.

[ajw373]

I don't think it is realistic to expect passengers (and drivers) to commit to memory individual four digit bus stop numbers. Most people relate to individual locations by the names of adjoining streets or local landmarks.

Exactly especially when said bus stop numbers are not published on the timetable maps.

[743]

In some ways that makes sense, but for someone like me who gets on in the city it is not much good. It basically means that owing to, as you point out varying traffic conditions my arrival time in Civic is unknown. So to find the next bus to Barton I have to hunt around 3 or 4 different bus stops, with the times shown on at least stop not worth the ink they are written in. And the ACT Government wonders why more people don't get the bus to work.

PS the 700 scenario of not waiting would be more acceptable IF the timetable, both online and in PDF clearly indicated that they don't wait at timing points.

I agree that the four different departure points in the City for Barton services (2/3, 4/5/6, 200 and 700s) is a bit much, but each of those stops offers a relatively high frequency (especially every 10 minutes on Route 200) so surely it's not too much of a problem. If you really need a higher frequency stop you could try the one on London Cct after Akuna St which services all Barton routes except Route 200.

I also agree the timetables could include a disclaimer if the timing point situation is indeed the case - I had not heard of this before. The Bus Books of the early 90s include a disclaimer on the Route 333 (current Blue Rapid) pages from memory that timings were approximate and buses would not wait if they were early.

I don't think it is realistic to expect passengers (and drivers) to commit to memory individual four digit bus stop numbers. Most people relate to individual locations by the names of adjoining streets or local landmarks.

Once you know the stop number - and that's the bit where people need a landmark first - then it's not too hard to remember. You can store it in your phone or even write it on a piece of paper and slip it in with your MyWay in your wallet. NXTBUS is electronic by nature and a stop number is the simplest way to go, so I agree with The Love Guru here.

Exactly especially when said bus stop numbers are not published on the timetable maps.

Logistically this would be a nightmare. I'd hate to be the designer who'd have to include all those (generally) four-digit numbers on the maps. A lot of ACTION maps - Route 3, for instance - show a very large area and hence are zoomed out to suit. Adding in all the numbers would be very crammed and make it hard to accurately and clearly show places of interest (shops, schools etc), street names and even the bus route. Have a look at the Adelaide Metro Route W90 map. Two-digit stop IDs are shown over the route line, and they are so close together that it is hard to see the bus route underneath (especially in the north-east), also their geographical accuracy is compromised because they have to be shown wherever they can fit, not necessarily where they actually are. Plus the type size is so small that they are tiny when printed (this is an A4 page).

Simplest solution here would be to show the ACTION stop numbers in Transit for Google Maps (as happens in other cities like Sydney, so surely not too hard to do) and the independent apps which will surely follow with NXTBUS.

[Buzz Killington]

Stop numbers on google transit would be good. It would also help if the stop names were the same on google transit and nxtbus.

[Bus 400]

In Perth they put the stop numbers in the timetable for timed stops. See the timetable for a route with not quite enough services http://www.transperth.wa.gov.au/timetablePDFs/High%20Frequency%20202%2020140127.pdf as an example.

While we are on the subject of Perth as a comparison between RTPIS's. In Perth the real time in their buses consists of only a little screen for the driver. This data is relayed to an app that Transperth developed. So far there are no passenger screens. But this may change when their newest bus statio  is opened in 2016.

[ajw373]

Logistically this would be a nightmare. I'd hate to be the designer who'd have to include all those (generally) four-digit numbers on the maps. A lot of ACTION maps - Route 3, for instance - show a very large area and hence are zoomed out to suit. Adding in all the numbers would be very crammed and make it hard to accurately and clearly show places of interest (shops, schools etc), street names and even the bus route. Have a look at the Adelaide Metro Route W90 map. Two-digit stop IDs are shown over the route line, and they are so close together that it is hard to see the bus route underneath (especially in the north-east), also their geographical accuracy is compromised because they have to be shown wherever they can fit, not necessarily where they actually are. Plus the type size is so small that they are tiny when printed (this is an A4 page).

Simplest solution here would be to show the ACTION stop numbers in Transit for Google Maps (as happens in other cities like Sydney, so surely not too hard to do) and the independent apps which will surely follow with NXTBUS.

Not suggesting they should be added. All I am suggesting is that it is pretty pointless announcing the stop number inside the bus. What the stop numbers are good for is getting timetable or real time info when your standing at the bus stop, or it is a bus stop you know the number for already.

[manhinli]

Not suggesting they should be added. All I am suggesting is that it is pretty pointless announcing the stop number inside the bus. What the stop numbers are good for is getting timetable or real time info when your standing at the bus stop, or it is a bus stop you know the number for already.

True, but some stop names can be ambiguous or slightly misleading. Having stop numbers clears that up significantly.

A case in point here is around where I am: Manning Clark Crescent joins Flemington Road at two points around Franklin in ~1km, so the bus stops are fairly close together:

• Flemington Road after Manning Clark Cr
• Flemington Road before 2nd Manning Clarke Cr (this one is actually the one for Flemington/Wizard, but they use "Flemington after Wizard" for the southbound stop)
• Flemington Rd after 2nd Manning Clarke

Apart from the inconsistent naming/misspellings plaguing stop names, which one would you consider to be "second" anyway? I don't think anyone would have an immediate idea where the stops are just by looking at the names (even with a map at hand.)

Since we don't have landmarks here, I don't think there is any solution to this apart from using a unique identifier like a stop number.


Google Transit does allow for stop IDs to be shown, which would tie in with the stop numbers well.

[King of Buses]

The display signs at Woden Bus Station were being installed yesterday afternoon.

[smitho]

Two display signs have been installed at "Tuggeranong (Interchange) Station"....

[smitho]

Do-it-yourself driver electronic sign-on system was in operation at Tuggeranong Depot over the weekend and today....system informs the driver of the number of his/her bus and also the number of the row in which the bus is parked.

[Buzz Killington]

Interesting. Is it a random allocation or are particular buses being allocated to particular shifts?

[Barry Drive]

Neither. The current system of buses being allocated by starters when drivers sign on will be performed in advance. But this may only be possible for limited times.

Back to the bus fitout: most, if not all, PR100.2s at B depot have been fitted - so far have yet to find one that hasn't been. Currently T depot .2s, artics (both depots) and the occasional B PR100.3 are being fitted. My guess is the plan is to complete the artics by the end of school holidays.

[Barry Drive]

Also, although not confirmed, based on what's being fitted (and what isn't), it's fair to assume all Scania STAGs, MAN diesels and MAN CNGs have been fitted.

There are probably a hand-full of Scania CNGs and one each Dennis (146) and Irisbus (314).

[Bus 400]

The display signs at Woden Bus Station were being installed yesterday afternoon.

For those who aren't aware, the screens are installed at Platform 16 & in front of the Transport Officers office. By the looks of things the screen on 16 will show departures for Platforms 11-17. While the other screen will show departures on Platforms 1-10.

EDIT-The screens have been fixed to show all departures.

[Buzz Killington]

The Regatta Point stop is (kinda) being announced again. The voiceover doesn't say "Next Stop" or the stop number, but the stop name is being announced (in both directions). The screen correctly notes that the stop is not in use.

[smitho]

Display screen was being erected at the Kippax Centre last week.

[King of Buses]

The School runs are starting to have NXTBUS voices being played overhead. Everyone is annoyed greatly by it (that includes me. Especially its mispronunciations such as "Bonython").

[smitho]

The School runs are starting to have NXTBUS voices being played overhead. Everyone is annoyed greatly by it (that includes me. Especially its mispronunciations such as "Bonython").

School run stop announcements were in Nxtbus from the time it was introduced last year. However S/R departures from interchanges do not appear on Nxtbus display boards.

[Barry Drive]

most, if not all, PR100.2s at B depot have been fitted - so far have yet to find one that hasn't been.

Until a week or two ago, 852, 853, 878 (T) & 879 were not fitted. But they are now. Work is now focussed on PR100.3s and Scania L94s.

[smitho]

Majority of PR2s at T Depot have yet to be fitted.

[Bus 400]

I've noticed at least two Tuggeranong buses (389 & 518) have been fitted with the NXTBUS system but are missing the internal screens. These buses also don't show up on the SMS system.

[smitho]

Yes, I've driven buses where the kit is installed but not yet activated (mainly artics from memory....the steer tags kits seem to be largely operational).

[Bus 400]

If anyone has seen them at Woden & Tuggeranong, some big tracking screens are currently being installed.

I can't remember their role in the NXTBUS system 100%, but they are large screens that have the screens covered over with large bits of foam. Both are near the Transport Officers offices. Although I suspect the City will miss out due to being too breakable & the only station to get one in Belconnen is likely to be inside Westfield. But that is purely speculation.

[743]

Just rode my first L94 with the system installed - 369.

[Barry Drive]

NXTBUS equipment now installed in 990 & 991. Well, most of it anyway. Due to the buses' interior, no screens have been installed.

If anyone has seen them at Woden & Tuggeranong, some big tracking screens are currently being installed.

I can't remember their role in the NXTBUS system 100%, but they are large screens that have the screens covered over with large bits of foam. Both are near the Transport Officers offices. Although I suspect the City will miss out due to being too breakable & the only station to get one in Belconnen is likely to be inside Westfield. But that is purely speculation.

A new media release from S Rattenbury came out on Wednesday. It announces that 4 additional PID screens will be installed in City Bus Station (mid year) and that the new screens at other locations are being installed over the coming weeks.

It also mentions that "touch screen kiosks" will be installed at Tuggeranong, Woden, City and Westfield Belconnen stations.

[Buzz Killington]

Still no screens up at Belco Community Station. The poles were sorted weeks ago

[smitho]

Still no screens up at Belco Community Station. The poles were sorted weeks ago

Curious that the two existing screens in Civic are so close together, considering the size and spread of the City Interchange.

[Bus 400]

Curious that the two existing screens in Civic are so close together, considering the size and spread of the City Interchange.

Word on the street is that with the additional screens.  Each screeb will show departures for what side of the station they are on. So the one neat McDonald's would show departures for platforms 1-3 only.

[ajw373]

Word on the street is that with the additional screens.  Each screeb will show departures for what side of the station they are on. So the one neat McDonald's would show departures for platforms 1-3 only.

That is plain silly. At the interchanges they should have one screen on each major corner that shows ALL departures, as well as screens at each stop that can be seen from each stop showing departures for that stop.

[Bus 400]

That would be what you use the touch screen kiosk for.

[ajw373]

That would be what you use the touch screen kiosk for.

Disagree. Display screens should show the times of every bus, with as I said one set on the major corners showing every route and its next departure and one on every stop showing just that stop. Touch screen should only be used for trying to get timetable information, or to work out what bus to catch to get somewhere. If you need to use a touch screen to work out when your next bus is coming then that is a bit over the top and of course will scare off many. Whereas a simple display showing the next bus would be dead simple.

[The Love Guru]

Disagree. Display screens should show the times of every bus, with as I said one set on the major corners showing every route and its next departure and one on every stop showing just that stop. Touch screen should only be used for trying to get timetable information, or to work out what bus to catch to get somewhere. If you need to use a touch screen to work out when your next bus is coming then that is a bit over the top and of course will scare off many. Whereas a simple display showing the next bus would be dead simple.

And really really expensive.
The is not enough budget at present to do this however large displays with all departures will eventually be installed at major bus stations.
The program for signage had been stretched out over a much longer period and the system will be continuously improved well after the system becomes fully operational, as funding becomes available.

[Barry Drive]

Ideally, there should be a large TV-screen sized display at all (or most) Bus Stations, with LED screens at every platform. But it won't happen.

The problem at City is that although there are 2 screens, each with 2 sides, all 4 sides are showing all buses at platforms 1 - 9. During peak this means that the screens basically only show the buses which are sitting at the platforms or are about to arrive. This hardly helps.

Adding 4 more screens, depending on where they are located, will come closer to providing the level of detail required.

Now they just need to mount clocks underneath or above the screens!

[Buzz Killington]

That is plain silly. At the interchanges they should have one screen on each major corner that shows ALL departures, as well as screens at each stop that can be seen from each stop showing departures for that stop.

Agreed. Too bad if you jump off a bus on Mort Street and want to change to a bus on Alinga/East, and not being able to see on the screen nearest you when your bus is going to arrive/depart.

It is a bit of a pain during peak when not all routes are shown, if you're relying on that info.

[smitho]

If screens allowed all departures over say the next 10 minutes to be displayed, that'd be ideal. Could be accommodated if the information was scrolled through.

Existing screens are very low key and have very little presence, in part because they are quite small. A large "i" (for information) attached to each screen, may be with a clock, would assist in drawing commuters' attention to it.

[Snorzac]

I think Melbournes idea with the tram tracker screens is good, it will show the next departure of every service departing from the stop...even if that service is the next day!

[Bus 400]

Agreed. Too bad if you jump off a bus on Mort Street and want to change to a bus on Alinga/East, and not being able to see on the screen nearest you when your bus is going to arrive/depart.

It is a bit of a pain during peak when not all routes are shown, if you're relying on that info.

The alternative is to SMS 'City' to the ACTION SMS number on your approach into the City. It will bring up every service departing City Bus Station. Same goes for Tuggeranong Bus Station, Cohen & Belc community.

[Barry Drive]

There is a message to drivers about NXTBUS at the depots. 350 buses (out of ~420) have been fitted and the website will be activated for system testing very soon - possibly even tomorrow (11 Mar).

I have noticed recently a marked increase in the number of "real time" departures reporting on the City PID - usually 5/7 or better.

[Buzz Killington]

I was on a Scania a week or two ago that had the audio announcements, but no screen.

NXTBUS equipment now installed in 990 & 991. Well, most of it anyway. Due to the buses' interior, no screens have been installed.

Presumably no screens for these two then. I was on 991 last week and it still didn't have a screen. The only place I thought they could put one is behind the driver, if they moved the 'Bus Stopping' light down.