The tender has just gone out for the supply to supply either 37 &/or 40 or 77 only standard diesel rigid buses
First bus due to ACTION in December 2013, last bus due August 2017 & will also required to have a fire suppression system.
As stated above, it will be a split tender. So all 77 buses may come from the one manufacturer or it will be split half and half. For instance, could mean a mix of MAN and Scania; could also mean half Custom, half Bustech.
Some of the requirements from the tender -
Mandatory / minimum requirements:
Diesel
Power: 250 kW (340 hp) * [sounds wrong]
Torque: 1200 Nm *
45 seated / 20 standing capacity
two door configuration (front and rear)
12.5m length maximum
meets Australian emission standard at time of manufacture
capable of fitting a bicycle rack
Additional requirements:
11R 22.5 tyres (preferred)
ThermoKing X1000
McConnell URBAN passenger seats
Hanover LED front side and rear
SMC doors
* which rules out pretty much everything currently available except for Scania K360s
Edited to add "currently available"
Not quite. I'm sure Volvo offer a 340+ HP version of the 13 litre engine. You will also find Xdis could be built with a Cummins that powerful.
Actually, i think almost any vehicle manufacturer could slot in a much more powerful engine if asked to do so. Of course wether they can keep it cool and reliable is another question.
It should probably have read 250HP.
Of interest is that over the course of the tender there is a very high probability that Euro 6 emission regulations will come into effect, meaning that buses in this order WILL have SCR (Ad blue) on them at some stage. (No manufacturer has been able to reach Euro 6 levels without the use of SCR, EGR and DPF technologies all combined on 1 engine)
So when does Euro VI take effect in Australia? This could be the reasoning behind the 37/40 tender: to enable bus makers to provide separate tenders for Euro V and Euro VI compliant vehicles. (The build schedule at 37 or 40 is May or September 2015.)
The tender specifically requires "Indicative fuel consumption additives for the proposed engine configuration(s) in litres per 100km travelled " (i.e. AdBlue) to be provided, so looks like ACTION has finally accepted that AdBlue is inevitable.
Quote from: The Love Guru on February 09, 2013, 08:42:41 PM
It should probably have read 250HP.
No idea what happened there: the artic tender from 2011 stated 220 kW and 1100Nm. Very odd that they want a 12.5m to have higher power and torque than an artic!
They wouldn't need more power due to Euro VI standards would they?
Also the Fuel Management System tender a few years back mentioned that the system must have to ability to have AdBlue added to the system.
A couple of minor points...firstly the man d 2066 luh engine produces 1450nm @ 1200 rpm, the 320 horsepower engine action chose for their buses. Secondly, this engine is available in horsepower ratings anywhere between 320 and 660. So action would be easily able to select a suitable powerplant. The dc9 engine (5 cylinder) used in the scania steer tags and artics produces the same power as the d2066 (320hp), but with 1600nm at 1200 rpm. They are positively spoilt for choice. Personally, i would choose scania over man any day of the week.
If the Scania produces 1600nm compared to the MANs 1450 I'll eat my hat. Scania are seriously kidding themselves if they think the 320hp & 360hp engines they make are putting out those figures. I can tell you now, from a seat of the pants point of view, the MAN shits all over the Scania. So far the Scanias have been a very big disappointment with a complete lack of get up and go, no torque to climb hills and terrible reliability. On the other hand, the MANs have had minimal teething issues whilst maintaining exceptional reliability.
The above figures do tell one story tho, and that is that Scania are obviously running much higher boost pressures than MAN and this explains the lack of effectiveness of their intercooler package on hot days, when the bus goes from slow to slug.
The KW have been degraded to 220KW, that should open the market up a bit more shouldn't it?
220 kW = ~300 HP. Still eliminates Volvo B7 and Bustech XDi in their standard form (have to check specs for others), but makes MAN 18.320 and Scania K320 the front runners. No surprise there.
They can put any engine in an XDi as it is just a chassis, I am sure bus tech would put whatever size Cummings engine in it if an operator asked for it!
Mercedes 0500lE also has an output of 220 kw
The tender closed this week, the following applied for this tender:
Asia Motors (Australia) Pty Ltd (Alexander Dennis/Daewoo)
Bustech Pty Ltd
Custom Coach (Sales) Pty Ltd
Heavy Vehicles Australia Pty Ltd LATE (King Long/HVA)
IVECO Trucks Australia Limited
Man Automotive Imports
Mercedes-Benz Australia/Pacific Pty Ltd LATE
Scania Australia Pty Ltd
Vogren Australia Pty Ltd [sic]
Volvo Group Australia Pty Ltd
The winners & non winners of this tender should know next month.
Good variety. Lets hope they resist the urge to buy more Scanias
Wonder whether Bustech bid for XDi and/or as VST body. Would love to see something other than Custom CB80 awarded the body contract.
Shane Rattenbury has responded that an announcement of the successful tenderer should be made "in the next month".
For those who missed it: Shane Rattenbury last week advised that the procurement process was still in train and that there would not be new buses this year.
I wonder if Volgren would give us a CR228L body or perhaps one of those new Optimus buses...
May depend on what was in tender, but I expect they would offer the Optimus.
However, given ACTION's record, Volgren is unlikely to be awarded the body.
Announcement expected tomorrow (27 November).
Press release is short on detail, other than stating the following:
- Engine: Scania
- Body: Custom
- roll-out: May 2014 to 2017
- all Euro 6 compliant
- 48 seats
Quote from: The Love Guru on February 09, 2013, 08:42:41 PM
Of interest is that over the course of the tender there is a very high probability that Euro 6 emission regulations will come into effect, meaning that buses in this order WILL have SCR (Ad blue) on them at some stage. (No manufacturer has been able to reach Euro 6 levels without the use of SCR, EGR and DPF technologies all combined on 1 engine)
Based on Scania's website, their Euro 6 engines utilise both SCR and EGR.
Scania's press release can be found at http://www.scania.com.au/about-scania/media/press-releases/press-release-112.aspx
So they will be K320's., which I am not mistaken are the bsame as the steer tags.
Sort of. But these will have Euro 6 (or Euro VI) compliant engines rather than the Euro 5. The rest of the bus chassis should be the same.
Based on their website, the 9 litre, 320 HP diesel has max torque of 1600Nm which is the same as the MAN 18.320 and both Scania models.
Quote from: ACTbusspotter on November 27, 2013, 01:55:08 PM
Sort of. But these will have Euro 6 (or Euro VI) compliant engines rather than the Euro 5. The rest of the bus chassis should be the same.
Based on their website, the 9 litre, 320 HP diesel has max torque of 1600Nm which is the same as the MAN 18.320 and both Scania models.
And we both know that the MAN engines are much more powerful in real world driving than any of the Scanias. I'd take the torque figure with a grain of salt, as on road performance of the Scanias so far has been below an acceptable level. They are dangerously slow off the mark, and suffer from sever heat soaking on hot days exacerbating the problem further. I fear we are in for another irisbus style fail with these vehicles.
Quote from: ACTbusspotter on February 09, 2013, 12:29:31 PM
Mandatory / minimum requirements:
Diesel
Power: 250 kW (340 hp) * [sounds wrong]
Torque: 1200 Nm *
45 seated / 20 standing capacity
two door configuration (front and rear)
12.5m length maximum
meets Australian emission standard at time of manufacture
capable of fitting a bicycle rack
Interesting that the minimum requirements mentioned above state 20 standing, yet the CB80 mentioned in the Scania press release can only stand 18. Not that it matters anyway. I don't think I have ever been on a bus where the driver has stopped letting people on once the max limit has been reached hahaha.
Quote from: tuckern on November 27, 2013, 10:07:42 PM
Interesting that the minimum requirements mentioned above state 20 standing, yet the CB80 mentioned in the Scania press release can only stand 18.
That's my fault. The actual tender requirement was minimum seating capacity 45 with total passenger capacity 65; there was no standing capacity requirement.
I'm not so sure that a 48 seat capacity will be a good thing - they may be squeezing the seats closer just to reach the 45 minimum (there goes your leg room). 44 seats would have been sufficient.
So, how will the new buses be allocated? While nothing is officially known, here are a few fleet stats:
Renault rigids (all models): B depot 100, T depot 61
Low floor rigids (Irisbus, Scania L94, MAN): B depot 86, T depot 93
Low floor rigids as % of depot total: B depot 40%, T depot 46%
Also unknown is what the fleet replacement strategy will be. There has been speculation that the PR100.3s will be retired early, which would result in 897-982 remaining in service (assuming the 4 stored PR100.2s at Woden are withdrawn without replacement). If so, assuming direct replacements with no transfers, B depot would get 52 and T depot 25.
Guys,
The MAN D 2066 LUH engines used on the ACTION 18.320s actually have 1600Nm @ 1000-1400rpm and have two turbochargers, one small high pressure unit and one large low pressure unit. The MAN engine has a larger displacement too (10.5-litre), which means more torque is available from a standing start compared to the 9.3-litre Scania. The engine is limited to 1450Nm due to the Voith gearbox, and with the limitation comes an even wide spread of torque over almost the entire engine speed range giving better real-world performance and economy. The new Euro VI Scania K320UBs have 1600Nm @ 1100-1350rpm so the torque band is still not as wide as with the MAN, and these new buses will have a completely different gearbox - the ZF EcoLife.
ZF Ecolife: that's a 6 speed isn't it?
Yes, it's a completely new 6-speed gearbox. It has TopoDyn Life which constantly monitors driving conditions and changes gearshift points 'on the fly'. It will hold gears as long as necessary to get you up even the steepest of slopes without the need to use kickdown and will get you down the other side while maintaining engine braking at high RPM. It has full authority over engine speeds from idle right up to redline and can even compensate for increased passenger loadings or increased power demand from airconditioning, etc.
Contract for new buses has just been published on ACT Gov website. No surprises in the specifications of the bus (except that it mentions wireless bus stop buttons).
Seating layout will be slightly different to what has been seen before:
Off-side - luggage rack behind driver, then rear-facing seat. Wheelchair bay to consist of 4* seating positions - 2+2 flip-up McConnell seats. Then 8 sets of McConnell Urban seats to rear. (Total 22)
Near-side - back-to-back seats over wheel arch. Wheelchair bay 3 seats - 2+1 flip-up seats. 2 sets of McConnell Urban seats; Rear door; then 5 sets of McConnell Urban seats to rear. (Total 21)
Then 5 seat capacity bench seat at rear.
(* note spec says 5 but drawings show 4)
Delivery schedule to have first 10 buses delivered by June 2014 (first bus due 30 May) with 28 by December 2014. Then approx. 20 per year with the final bus due 30 June 2017. Fleetwiki (http://www.actbus.net/fleetwiki/index.php?title=Expected_Bus_Deliveries) has been updated to show this schedule.
Full contract available from here: http://www.procurement.act.gov.au/__data/assets/pdf_file/0020/539030/PUBLIC-TEXT-19861-210-77-RIGID-BUSES-13-JANUARY-2014-2.pdf
By my understanding, these buses use AdBlue.
Also at least we know these buses will be built at the Adelaide factory.
Yes they do use AdBlue(DEF). No manufacturer has yet been able to accomplish Euro 6 standards without the use of both SCR and EGR plus an exhaust particulate filter. More shit that can run out, go wrong or cause over heating. All well and good to build more environmentally friendly buses, however if the cost of that progress is reliability then it is a pointless exercise.
Just put together a detailed spec sheet (http://actbus.net/scania-k320ub-4x2-specifications/), based on the contract. Something which seemed odd / wrong was the ratio of the drive axle: in the contract it is shown as 5.57:1 (which is what the MANs use). But the Scania website (and also the K320 & K360s) shows it as 4.88:1 which I assume is what you use with a 5-6 speed ZF transmission.
Any thoughts? What effect would a 5.57 ratio have with a ZF box?
Quote from: ACTbusspotter on January 15, 2014, 01:22:00 PMSomething which seemed odd / wrong was the ratio of the drive axle: in the contract it is shown as 5.57:1 (which is what the MANs use). But the Scania website (and also the K320 & K360s) shows it as 4.88:1 which I assume is what you use with a 5-6 speed ZF transmission.
Any thoughts? What effect would a 5.57 ratio have with a ZF box?
5.57:1 is more optimal for a 6-speed dual-overdrive gearbox under urban conditions. The shorter axle ratio will mean even stronger acceleration (on top of the boost that the 1600Nm 320hp engine will provide on top of the 1400Nm 280hp engine). It will also mean excellent gradeability when combined with the ZF-EcoLife gearbox with TopoDyn Life.
Quote from: PoweredByCNG on January 20, 2014, 01:30:09 PM
5.57:1 is more optimal for a 6-speed dual-overdrive gearbox under urban conditions. The shorter axle ratio will mean even stronger acceleration (on top of the boost that the 1600Nm 320hp engine will provide on top of the 1400Nm 280hp engine). It will also mean excellent gradeability when combined with the ZF-EcoLife gearbox with TopoDyn Life.
Except its a Scania and they'll let half the horses out of the engine prior to delivery. If the bus genuinely had 1600nm it wouldn't need a 6 speed gearbox. Higher torque should result in the diff ratio being closer to 6:1, similar to the MAN ratio. A 4 or 5 speed box would be sufficient to power a 1600nm engine as the longer legs in the diff would hold the engine in its maximum torque band for longer periods. At the end of the day, more gear changes always equals increased fuel economy.
The Scania engines in the K320 drive like they have 1100nm and the K360 doesn't feel any better. I'm very sceptical about the numbers Scania are providing.
Quote from: The Love Guru on January 20, 2014, 07:23:55 PM
Except its a Scania and they'll let half the horses out of the engine prior to delivery. If the bus genuinely had 1600nm it wouldn't need a 6 speed gearbox. Higher torque should result in the diff ratio being closer to 6:1, similar to the MAN ratio. A 4 or 5 speed box would be sufficient to power a 1600nm engine as the longer legs in the diff would hold the engine in its maximum torque band for longer periods. At the end of the day, more gear changes always equals increased fuel economy.
The Scania engines in the K320 drive like they have 1100nm and the K360 doesn't feel any better. I'm very sceptical about the numbers Scania are providing.
In first gear, it is typical that a significant amount of torque restriction is enforced to ensure ride quality. Typically, starting torque is reduced down to approximately 800Nm. The full 1600Nm won't be provided until 3rd gear.
Anyway, comparing theoretical road speeds, the ZF-EcoLife gearbox has ratios of 3.364:1 in 1st, 1.909:1 in 2nd, 1.421:1 in 3rd, 1.000:1 in 4th, 0.720:1 in 5th and 0.615:1 in 6th. Tyre size is 295/80 R22.5. Rated engine speed of the Scania DC9 5-cylinder engine is 1900 rpm.
1st gear provides 22km/h or 19km/h
2nd gear provides 40km/h or 35km/h
3rd gear provides 53km/h or 47km/h
4th gear provides 76km/h or 67km/h
5th gear provides 106km/h or 93km/h
6th gear provides 124km/h or 109km/h
(First value is for 4.88:1, second is for 5.57:1).
And comparing that with the ZF-Ecomat 2 or ZF-Ecomat 4 gearbox with ratios of 3.43:1 in 1st, 2.01:1 in 2nd, 1.42:1 in 3rd, 1.00:1 in 4th and 0.83:1 in 5th:
1st gear provides 22km/h
2nd gear provides 38km/h
3rd gear provides 53km/h
4th gear provides 76km/h
5th gear provides 92km/h
Since ACTION specifies a required top road speed of 80km/h, the 5.57:1 diff ratio is more suitable when combined with the 6-speed gearbox in order to fully take advantage of the new gearbox. The ZF-EcoLife gearbox in standard configuration is designed to ensure that the engine operates between 950-1300 rpm under normal conditions and this changes 'on the fly' ddepending on topography, weight of the bus and other variables.
Sounds good Dave, I've yet to experience the new ZF box, sounds like they've come along a fair way.
I still think they won't be able to mask the poor power performance of the Scania, which is a real shame as the truck engines they build are magnificent, however don't have 5 cylinders.
Yay! Been waiting for the new artics' style to move on to normal sized buses. Seen them all the time in Sydney, so many...
What do you think?
Yes, they are everywhere in Sydney. But I still would've preferred a different type of body (like Bustech XDi or VST and some Volgren CR228L or Optimus) would be nice for a change to the Custom buses.
Understood. But hey, it's better than the CB60 style!
Quote from: aidenh37 on May 21, 2014, 05:25:10 PM
it's better than the CB60 style!
It really isn't. Except for more LED lights, the CB80 is nowhere near as good as the CB60 Evo II.
I'd go so far as to say the CB60II was the best body on an ACTION bus since the MAN SL200 (the CAC/MAN version).
... Some people think the CB60 style looks like a brick while the CB80 doesn't! Personally that isn't true, but I do like the front.
When is 539 due? I know it's this month sometime but does anyone known when?
^ Good question. Contract delivery date is 30 May. (Mentioned at post #29.)
Expected delivery dates for buses up to 551 have been loaded to the Fleetwiki - http://www.actbus.net/fleetwiki/index.php?title=Category:Expected_Buses (http://www.actbus.net/fleetwiki/index.php?title=Category:Expected_Buses). More will be set up later.