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LR general discussion

Started by Sylvan Loves Buses, December 09, 2017, 05:39:25 AM

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Sylvan Loves Buses

December 09, 2017, 05:39:25 AM Last Edit: December 09, 2017, 05:47:37 AM by Sylvan Loves Buses
I haven't payed too much attention to this whole lightrail thing, mostly cause I feel it's a waste of time, resources and money, and those poor tree :'(, but aside that and among the discussions about it that I have been reading of it over these past few months, there's still something that doesn't seem quite right to me.

I have a basic understanding of how trams work and know that the turning radius is rather limited due to the concertina and carriages length compared to articulated buses.
There's that, but from what all the signs say I've worked out at the busiest time there's going to be at least 4-6 active lightrail services running at the same time up and down Northbourne/Flemington, but from what I've seen, it looks as though there are two tracks (excluding whatever is being used to with the depot) and only the signs of the trams using the two tracks meaning they use the same track but in the opposite direction after each terminus like where it use to at Lilyfield in Sydney. ([EDIT] although that's apparently changed to Dulwich Hill since I was last there). So unless there's a loop like at Central Station or something plus the use of Vernon Circle, I don't quite get how this could work.

Can someone please explain this for me. Possibly with pictures and photos even


Also while I think of it, shouldn't the 'Canberra Metro' topic be under the 'Other Transport' subheading cause it kinda fits there better than under 'Discussion'? just a thought.

Busfanatic101

December 09, 2017, 07:53:44 AM #1 Last Edit: December 09, 2017, 07:55:25 AM by Busfanatic101
Quote from: Sylvan Loves Buses on December 09, 2017, 05:39:25 AM
I have a basic understanding of how trams work and know that the turning radius is rather limited due to the concertina and carriages length compared to articulated buses.
There's that, but from what all the signs say I've worked out at the busiest time there's going to be at least 4-6 active lightrail services running at the same time up and down Northbourne/Flemington, but from what I've seen, it looks as though there are two tracks (excluding whatever is being used to with the depot) and only the signs of the trams using the two tracks meaning they use the same track but in the opposite direction after each terminus like where it use to at Lilyfield in Sydney. ([EDIT] although that's apparently changed to Dulwich Hill since I was last there). So unless there's a loop like at Central Station or something plus the use of Vernon Circle, I don't quite get how this could work.

Can someone please explain this for me. Possibly with pictures and photos even
The LRVs should be bidirectional, with a driver's cab at each end. This eliminates the need for them to turn at each end - all they have to do is switch tracks. Take a look at the Gold Coast G:link for an idea of how this might look.

Sylvan Loves Buses

December 09, 2017, 01:26:16 PM #2 Last Edit: December 09, 2017, 01:27:14 PM by Sylvan Loves Buses
Had a look at a video, I understand now, there's a lane switch just after each starting point.
All cleared up now, thank you.

Sylvan Loves Buses

February 02, 2018, 01:45:01 PM #3 Last Edit: February 02, 2018, 01:46:58 PM by Sylvan Loves Buses
Just read the TC E-news email, with the confirmation of My Way being used for both buses and trams with tag on/off machines at the stations. The one thing I'm still wondering though is will the light rail be cashless, do any of you know?

Quote from: Sylvan Loves Buses on December 09, 2017, 01:26:16 PM...there's a lane switch just after each starting point.
Saw that the other day when I was doing the drawing at Gungahlin.

Busfanatic101

Quote from: Sylvan Loves Buses on February 02, 2018, 01:45:01 PM
Just read the TC E-news email, with the confirmation of My Way being used for both buses and trams with tag on/off machines at the stations. The one thing I'm still wondering though is will the light rail be cashless, do any of you know?
They will most likely have ticket machines on platforms that accept cash and card like G:Link etc. Sort of like the yellow ticket boxes in the underground parking at the Hyperdome.
Sicne drivers won't be handling fares onboard, convinience for passengers (ie. flexible payment options) should prevail over speed of the transaction.

Sylvan Loves Buses

Yes, makes sense.

It also said...
QuoteThe MyWay (tag on – tag off) system, currently used on buses, will be installed on platforms at all light rail stops.
Which makes me think, wouldn't it be better to have the My Way machines in the actual trams at each door like they did on the Melbourne trams? That way it would prevent people from cheating, tagging on at the wrong time or forgetting when they get off, unless the system makes the My Way machines switch from red to green when the trams pass some sort of detection point.
Any ideas for that?

Bus 503

Quote from: Sylvan Loves Buses on February 03, 2018, 02:47:09 PM
Yes, makes sense.

It also said...Which makes me think, wouldn't it be better to have the My Way machines in the actual trams at each door like they did on the Melbourne trams? That way it would prevent people from cheating, tagging on at the wrong time or forgetting when they get off, unless the system makes the My Way machines switch from red to green when the trams pass some sort of detection point.
Any ideas for that?

Nothing will stop people from fare evading unless there are regular inspections with hefty fines to make sure passengers have valid tickets. I don't think it's policed very well on the trams in Melbourne, and as a result people fare evade lots of the time. I don't mind whether they have the MyWay readers in the tram or on the platform but whatever method they choose needs to be the most efficient way (so not having long queues of people getting off trams and facing a MyWay reader outside to tag off).

Bus 400

There will be "On Board Attendants" on the LRV's, presumably they'll be checking MyWay cards & maybe even selling cash tickets.

I do have a sneaky suspicion you may also be able to purchase tickets at Add Value Machines at Gungahlin & City (can tremember if Dickson will have an AVM).

Only Vline gives a rats about fare enforcement in Victoria, except if an international event is coming up.

Sent from my SM-T810 using Tapatalk


King of Buses

June 12, 2018, 07:04:59 PM #8 Last Edit: July 22, 2018, 01:23:45 PM by Barry Drive

Just so it is recorded: Tram 3 was the first departure from Mitchell Depot, which occurred moments before midnight on the 11th June 2018. It spent today sitting in a tram sized enclosure on Flemington Road near the Manning Clark Crescent (North) stop. Testing should commence tonight once the overhead goes live.

Busnerd

For those who have somehow avoided social media today, LRV007 was towed to Dickson last night, as posted by CBR Metro and annoyingly re-shared by one PTCBR related individual with an excessive need to use emoji's.

It is understood gauge testing will take place over the next two nights between Dickson and Alinga (assuming the track is free of crap/debris/tools/holes) by then. This should see the LRV being dragged by the Unimog with the large foam 'collar'/thing around the outside to test clearances on the line, presumably before they do final platform concreting, set the poles in place along the alignment etc.

ajw373

Quote from: Busnerd on November 15, 2018, 02:29:44 PM
For those who have somehow avoided social media today, LRV007 was towed to Dickson last night, as posted by CBR Metro and annoyingly re-shared by one PTCBR related individual with an excessive need to use emoji's.

It is understood gauge testing will take place over the next two nights between Dickson and Alinga (assuming the track is free of crap/debris/tools/holes) by then. This should see the LRV being dragged by the Unimog with the large foam 'collar'/thing around the outside to test clearances on the line, presumably before they do final platform concreting, set the poles in place along the alignment etc.

Doesn't look like the thing has moved since it was towed there.

Though I did see one today under its own power parked just outside the depot entry.

Busnerd

Correct, it was placed there to get local residents/motorists ready to see LRV's in the area, it won't be moving anytime soon, it's just trying to show how far along they in the project that they could get it there.

Bus 503

Quote from: Busnerd on December 04, 2018, 06:35:42 AM
Correct, it was placed there to get local residents/motorists ready to see LRV's in the area, it won't be moving anytime soon, it's just trying to show how far along they in the project that they could get it there.

Not sure where LRV007 has gone but in its place this morning was LRV009 on Northbourne Avenue, situated at the same place.

Sylvan Loves Buses

December 10, 2018, 11:33:15 PM #13 Last Edit: December 11, 2018, 09:39:07 AM by Busnerd
Finally saw my first Lightrail vehicle today. LRV009 rested on Northbourne south of Dickson.
Photos certainly don't tell the whole picture, it is so much better seeing them with my own eyes, although I'm still not a fan of the red.

triumph

Quote from: Busnerd on December 04, 2018, 06:35:42 AM
Correct, it was placed there to get local residents/motorists ready to see LRV's in the area, it won't be moving anytime soon, it's just trying to show how far along they in the project that they could get it there.

Sylvan Loves Buses referred yesterday to LRV009 'South of Dickson'. I wonder how far South was it when Sylvan saw it? Today it was parked on the Northbound track South of Macarthur Ave about a 1/4 to 1/3 of block towards Condamine St..

triumph

Waiting at Northbourne Ave bus stop today an ambulance in emergency mode came past. A fellow traveller commented that when traffic was heavy the emergency services vehicles sometimes used the median and ask "What will they do now?" Interesting question.

Will emergency service vehicles be able to resort to the LR corridor? If that is possible then they might even have gained an advantage. Time will tell for sure.

ajw373

I've never once seen an emergency vehicle use the median before. Unless of course you or the passenger are talking about crossing over the median before a set of lights to bypass a queue of cars. In which case they would have been unlikely to have done that on Northborne Ave before anyway because it was too wide and grass.

If anything light rail might give them the option of driving down the track alignment if there is an emergency they cannot get to. It's clearly wide enough and it's not like they need to trigger the lights.

Busnerd

I will agree with ajw373, the only time I see them crossing the median is usually at an intersection, and considering LRV's will be travelling at 70km/h unencumbered, I'm not sure that emergency vehicles would just drive into the corridor without letting the light rail operations know they're doing so, I'm sure it'd be quite the shock to see a vehicle pull on to the tracks in front of a tram at full speed, that said I wouldn't discount it, they drive on tracks in other cities so I guess we wait and see.

triumph

Came across an interesting item in the engineering report on the proposal to add a light rail right turn from King William St to North Terrace (East) in Adelaide. The limitations of the latest modern multi-module light rail vehicles in Adelaide has effectively made the proposal unfeasable. Adelaide's newest are 5 module Alstom Citadis 302. There is an articulation between each module BUT only horizontally (yaw). This enables sharp curvature with little overhangs. In PITCH however, to accommodate vertical curves (sags, crests) there is only ONE articulation point being at the join of the second to third module (or from the other end, the 3rd and 4th module) and aggravated by stiff bogie suspension. This pitch limitation was a major factor in making the proposal unworkable (the intersection has complex gradients).
Whilst this relates to the Citadis, I wonder if our CAF 5 module trams have a similar articulation arrangement? Searching the internet has so far not answered this question.
It could be very relevant to stage 2 design near Parliament House.

Sylvan Loves Buses

Finally saw a tram stopped at the City Interchange. It is for sure much more visually pleasing to see one in person than looking at the photographs. Still not a fan of the red though, even if it is shiny.

Busnerd

I hope there wasn't one in the City Interchange, otherwise it probably derailed!

Although personally I would've preferred they named the stop Civic or City Interchange or something.

ajw373

Noticed that testing has intensified this week especially the am peak down Northborne. On wed saw about 5 trams out between Dickson and the city.

They also seem to have either reprogrammed the destination displays or maybe I have never noticed before. But seen trams with destination set as "Alinga Street Service" and "Gungahlin Place Service" (might not have said place but you get the idea). Before this week only really seen "Alinga Street (excl EPIC) etc.

Also saw one saying EPIC and Racecourse.

And side destos have been showing messages to stand back from doors and let passengers off first.

Sylvan Loves Buses

Quote from: Busnerd on February 27, 2019, 09:34:14 AM
Although personally I would've preferred they named the stop Civic or City Interchange or something.

Yeah I agree, Alinga Street just doesn't feel right, esp considering what the bus Interchange is called.

Toyota Camry

The stop should be named as the City Tram Station; this is in line with the adjacent City Bus Station.`

King of Buses

Quote from: Toyota Camry on March 03, 2019, 08:09:05 AM
The stop should be named as the City Tram Station; this is in line with the adjacent City Bus Station.`

How about just "City Interchange" for all bus/tram platforms? Then give the tram platforms numbers 10/11 (or renumber all the platforms for a different numbering configuration).

Same at Gungahlin - rename the whole thing to "Gungahlin Interchange." Don't need to renumber platforms there though.

"Dickson Interchange" is now the name used by all the stops/platforms service by buses and trams, so why isn't this consistent in Gungahlin and the City?

Woden, Tuggeranong, City West, BCBS, Barton. etc. can stay as they are though, given they're only serviced by buses (for now - you can rename those later).

Busfanatic101

Quote from: Toyota Camry on March 03, 2019, 08:09:05 AM
The stop should be named as the City Tram Station; this is in line with the adjacent City Bus Station.`
City LRV Station you mean  >:D >:D >:D

Sylvan Loves Buses

Gets me thinking how they'll decide to name Woden. Will it be Woden, Phillip, Callam Street, Callum Street? So many choices...

Toyota Camry

The first victim of Canberra's tram system was hit by a tram this morning; due to this incident and others that will occur in the future, it seems the best option is to fit boom gates to the crossings where trams cross the roadway, this would be the same system used to protect vehicles and pedestrians from trains on heavy rail lines.

https://www.canberratimes.com.au/national/act/man-hit-by-canberra-tram-while-walking-through-intersection-20190309-p512ww.html

ajw373

I was at the Rudd Street intersection when this happened. I didn't see the pedestrian get hit but saw the tram come to a sudden stop, thought it had another issue. 40 minutes later went past it again and police were there but ambulance must have already left.

But really people are bloody stupid. How you can miss a big red tram is beyond me. And whilst waiting at the Bunda St intersection I saw a car turn right off Northborne onto Rudd St and then proceed to stop on the tracks. Waiting for the lights. How long has it been now since you could do that? Ages. And of course no right turn signs etc etc etc. 

Busnerd

QuoteThe best option is to fit boom gates to the crossings

Won't be happening.

ajw373, I have seen the same thing on multiple occasions there, they do it in both directions and stop in the middle when the light goes orange despite there not being any stop lines, have also spotted cars stopping in stupid places at Northbourne/Flemington, Flemington prior to Sandford St and near the EPIC stop, most of which is possibly due to the partially re-surfaced roads meaning stop lines are missing or difficult to see.

triumph

Quote from: ajw373 on March 09, 2019, 09:23:08 AM
But really people are bloody stupid. How you can miss a big red tram is beyond me.
(Mucked that up, posted prematurely, try again.)

It was reported that the victim was wearing earphones.

Wonder how long it will be before someone is asked "Didn't you hear the bell?" "Oh yes, I heard a bell and thought it was just a bicycle!"

On a more serious note, Canberra pedestrians are conditioned to expect freedom from traffic whilst passing through wide median/nature strips between opposing road traffic lanes. Once conditioned, it is very difficult to eradicate absent minded behaviour. It will take time and, in the meantime, all that can be done is for the LRV drivers to be extra alert and cautious. (As are bus driver's at Westfield Belconnen and City bus stations.)

It is not only LRVs though, this forum has recently mentioned pedestrian/bus conflicts (but no media headline for those) too. And general walking against 'Don't Walk' traffic signals is rife. High time for a police enforcement campaign?

Enforcement is not only a law and order issue, and for discouraging impatient pedestrians. TC/ACTION/Canberra Metro also have obligations under the Occupational Health and Safety laws to take all practical steps to protect their staff. Drivers may suffer significant (and possibly long term) psychological injury following a conflict or even a frightening near miss with a red light/Don't Walk runner.


triumph

Terminology.
Light Rail or Tram? Both terms are being used for the same thing and it is bugging me.

Considering a traditional tram system mostly sharing road space with traffic and stops just a marker, serviced by single/coupled rigid units. It is clearly not a tram system. But trams have evolved to multi module units using dedicated tracks with stops with platforms (driven in Melbourne now by disability access rules). But in places like Melbourne, the system is also a mixture ranging from traditional to the latest iteration. Just to muddy the waters further the brand new Newcastle Light Rail System uses only up to the minute multi module units but still provides shared sections of street. At some undefined point there is a crossover from tram to light rail (and then to metro).

I don't think there is a clear definitional answer (especially as overseas countries vary in usage too). What I do think is that this forum needs to decide whether to refer to the infrastructure as a Light Rail or Tram system; and the vehicles as Light Rail Vehicles or Trams.

Clearly Transport Canberra and Canberra Metro uses Light Rail with no reference to trams. But Metro? Thats another whole discussion with terminology meaning different things in different countries.

Despite the title Canberra Metro, I think we have what is probably predominantly known as Light Rail with Metro predominantly meaning a more sophisticated system more like heavy rail without the mixed traffic.

Unfortunately, many commentators are attempting to belittle the system here in Canberra by calling it a 'tram', so despite the convenience of the word tram, perhaps Light Rail and LRV are more appropriate for this Forum.


Busfanatic101

March 19, 2019, 09:11:26 AM #32 Last Edit: March 19, 2019, 09:11:50 AM by Busfanatic101
Quote from: triumph on March 18, 2019, 10:59:02 PMTerminology.
Light Rail or Tram? Both terms are being used for the same thing and it is bugging me.

Unfortunately, many commentators are attempting to belittle the system here in Canberra by calling it a 'tram', so despite the convenience of the word tram, perhaps Light Rail and LRV are more appropriate for this Forum.
Does it matter? There is only one tram/LRV/Metro system in Canberra, and no room for confusion.

Does it bug you too that people might refer to their IGA as a shop, supermarket, or grocer; and Bus 538 as a long bus, an artic, or a bendy?

Busnerd

Only thing to agree upon there is it is not a metro system, if anything you could class it as a 'Premetro' as several light rail systems are called in Europe, but that's another story.

If you're bored and want a read however - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Premetro

Barry Drive

March 19, 2019, 11:00:01 AM #34 Last Edit: March 19, 2019, 12:09:31 PM by Barry Drive
QuoteTerminology.
Light Rail or Tram?

What I do think is that this forum needs to decide whether to refer to the infrastructure as a Light Rail or Tram system; and the vehicles as Light Rail Vehicles or Trams.
If you'll refer to the ACT Bus Gallery and Fleetwiki sites, you will notice that the terminology for the vehicles is consistent: we call them trams. CAF also call the Urbos 100 series as trams. As does Newcastle.

Is it a Light Rail System or a tram line? You can call it either one, I don't think it matters that much. Just don't call it a Metro.

Northside

The system serves as a metropolitan transit system, hence metro. Sydney's idea of a 'metro' is just one interpretation. Paris has a completely different interpretation. None are wrong, just different.

Busnerd

Not sure how Paris's system is different from the new Sydney system, in most cases you'll find a metro is (more often than not, underground, but doesn't have to be) is usually a high frequency 90 seconds - 4 minute peak frequency high capacity train, travelling at normally no more than 50-60km/h and stopping every 1-2km, most usually have sideways facing seats to increase standing capacity meaning more people can be moved per hour, obviously paris has a LOT of lines, with different rolling stock on different lines, theirs also have a lot more seats than a traditional metro system such as those used in most developed asian cities and London to name a few.

triumph

Terminology.
Thanks to all who have responded.

Just to muddy the waters, refer to today's Canberra Times. At page 8 in item about the start, 3rd col, Minister Fitzharris is quoted ".... with the light rail vehicles running up and down the route...."; and at page 9 in item about fines the point is made (last col) that ACT Road Rules refer to 'tram' but the description 'tram' is out of favour with Canberra Metro.

So, officially it is apparently to be considered a Light Rail Vehicle, not a 'tram' (unless, of course, the traffic regs are being considered).

My original concern was the different terminologies being used, now clarified (sort of); but in particular the denigration planted in the public mind by anti-light rail advocates using the term 'tram' to mean obsolete, and conjure up visions of Sydney 'O' class 'toast racks', and Melbourne 'W' classes. To my mind that was a good enough reason to not use the term 'tram'.

If the Forum, as indicated in replies, prefers the convenience of the term 'tram', that's fine.


 

Sylvan Loves Buses

It's so dumb, cause at the start many govies were calling them trains...

Northside

Quote from: Busnerd on March 19, 2019, 08:49:21 PMNot sure how Paris's system is different from the new Sydney system, in most cases you'll find a metro is (more often than not, underground, but doesn't have to be) is usually a high frequency 90 seconds - 4 minute peak frequency high capacity train, travelling at normally no more than 50-60km/h and stopping every 1-2km, most usually have sideways facing seats to increase standing capacity meaning more people can be moved per hour, obviously paris has a LOT of lines, with different rolling stock on different lines, theirs also have a lot more seats than a traditional metro system such as those used in most developed asian cities and London to name a few.

Sydney's metro line will be going up to 100km/hr, with stations spaced far apart through to low-density outer-suburban areas. Paris's metro is typically inner metropolitan, stations close together (relatively), thus stopping frequently. Yes, they both have high frequencies and high capacity (mostly standing) trains, but the two are quite different. But if they both want to be called Metro, then good for them. My point is that it doesn't really matter. Canberra Metro is really just a brand after all.

Busnerd

Yes, however both the Sydney and Paris systems are both metro systems, Australia just doesn't know how to implement them properly, it's not designed to run from 50km outside the city with 5 minutes between stops, it is for high density inner city areas, but I'm sure given Sydney's booming population and terrible traffic it will be well patronised.

Busfanatic101

Light rail frequency across the day according to the riotact

Stan butler

Quote from: Busfanatic101 on March 26, 2019, 04:26:10 PMLight rail frequency across the day according to the riotact


Interesting.  So in peak times (7-7.30am) they will run every 6 minutes to civic - but every 10 minutes back to gungahlin. So they will be "banking" up in civic.  So in 30 minutes - 5 will arrive but 3 will leave.  So 2 sitting there.

I wonder how that will work as the platform isn't that long.  I dare say though, that the travelling times for each tram/lr vehicle won't be the same so they will arrive at staggered times and not specifically at every 6 minutes. But am curious about what happen if they do somehow bank up at civic.

At least with a bus, you can easily have multiple buses at one platform - ie several 300 series on platform 1.

triumph

The timetable provided by Barry Drive for outbound from Alinga St shows a couple of services starting from Well Station Rd towards Gungahlin. Perhaps these are taken up by positioning from Alinga St. I think it more likely these are from the Depot with the 'spares' at Alinga St positioning back to Dickson for short working to the  City. When Barry Drive posts the rest of the timetable it might be clearer as to what is happening.

Northside

The start of the 6 minute frequency from Gungahlin at 7am then takes approximately 30 mins to get to Alinga st, thus then 6 min frequency return starts from then. The 10 min frequency from 7 to 7:30 outbound will be supplemented with new services from the depot for the inbound run. Likewise in the afternoon, there will be some shortworkings both ways to get enough trams ready for the outbound peak frequency. The services departing Gungahlin up to 5:30 will become the services departing Alinga at 6pm. After 5:30 services from Gungahlin will thin out by sending some back to the depot.

Barry Drive

QuoteSo in peak times (7-7.30am) they will run every 6 minutes to civic - but every 10 minutes back to gungahlin. So they will be "banking" up in civic.  So in 30 minutes - 5 will arrive but 3 will leave.  So 2 sitting there.
No. In the 30 minutes between 7 & 7.30 three will arrive at Alinga Street (7.07 - short run from EPIC, 7.09 & 7.24) and four will depart (7.00, 7.10, 7.20 & 7.30).

Only at 7.30 does the frequency increase to every 6 minutes (at Alinga St) since it takes 30 minutes for each tram to arrive.

The reverse pattern occurs in PM peak with the 6 minutes frequency continuing until 6pm from the Alinga St end, but concluding at 5.30pm at Gungahlin.

Not sure when I'll get around to completing the timetable - the table format is extremely time consuming to work with.

Barry Drive

The weekday timetable has now been completed. It is based on the GTFS and may be subject to change if the times prove to be unworkable - especially in peak.

For those wondering, there will be a maximum of 10 trams on the line during peak. This becomes 6 during the 10 minute headway and 4 at night and weekends (15 minute headway).

triumph

Do hope someone for the historical record can record fleet identities for first LRV carrying balloted passengers tomorrow.
AND first public trip from EACH end on Sat.
(Dammit, I will be away so can't.)

Busnerd

All trips will commence at the same time on both days so there won't be a "first vehicle" there will be 6 or more departing at the same time.

Sylvan Loves Buses

That's the weekend business, triumph is talking about the special ballot for the random lucky few who entered the ballot - gone just after I post this. I missed out cause of the typical unfairness of how Transport Canberra run things now days, but on my way past I saw LRV011 ready for departure at the City.

Buzz Killington

Quote from: triumph on April 18, 2019, 12:54:18 AMDo hope someone for the historical record can record fleet identities for first LRV carrying balloted passengers tomorrow.
AND first public trip from EACH end on Sat.
(Dammit, I will be away so can't.)

Not sure how many were used for the ballot today, but I saw 014 on a video.

triumph

Quote from: Busnerd on April 18, 2019, 12:33:40 PMAll trips will commence at the same time on both days so there won't be a "first vehicle" there will be 6 or more departing at the same time.
Did you mean multiple simultaneous departures from various stops as well as terminii?
Clearly, there can only be one FIRST from Alinga St and another from Gungahlin accepting the public. If other LRVs, at the same time or earlier, start accepting the public (or today, ballotted passengers) from intermediate stops then determining a true FIRST becomes problematical.

It is the historical record that is important, as it is customary in historical literature to quote the identity and departure time of vehicles providing the FIRST service (or simultaneous first services).

Also of interest would be the identities of all LRVs used today for ballotted passengers, and on Saturday for the public. This would align with the Forum practice of recording first day in service of buses (where known).

Barry Drive

It is my understanding that trams will be stationed at various stops and all of them will depart at exactly 9am on Saturday. So there will not be a "first" departure, there will be several.

And yes, the intention is to note which were in service on Saturday and so on until all 14 have operated public services. Maybe I need to camp out in front of the depot with binoculars and a note pad. Like a normal person would do.

(BTW, I don't see the trial passenger run as significant, historically speaking. There have been many tests and "special" runs before now - this is just another.)

triumph

April 18, 2019, 05:39:17 PM #53 Last Edit: April 18, 2019, 11:35:42 PM by Barry Drive
Quote from: Barry Drive(BTW, I don't see the trial passenger run as significant, historically speaking. There have been many tests and "special" runs before now - this is just another.)

Yes, I had wondered about this. I do think it is significant though for these reasons:
- It is the first after accreditation.
- It is first actually available to general public, though by ballot due to number limits.
- Previous runs were under non-accredited, that is system construction/development, conditions and restraints (eg hard hats, hi-via vests as mentioned in today's paper), with no opportunity for the public at large to participate.

Perhaps it is analogous to an Official Opening Run carrying VIPs.

Sylvan Loves Buses

Quote from: Buzz Killington on April 18, 2019, 01:59:09 PMNot sure how many were used for the ballot today, but I saw 014 on a video.

Only two would've been used, to take the selected few with their golden tickets both ways and that's it. I'd say if you saw 014 in a video and I saw 011, those would've been it.

Considering everyone I saw at the City earlier today looked like a government employee, not a single kid or parent, no randoms and 1 photographer, I'm having a hard time believing 6000 people entered the ballot, and the selections weren't rigged. Didn't go to Gungahlin to see what was going on there, I assume the 'more important' people and journalists/news crews were there, cause there was practically nothing happening at the City, at least while I was there.

Buzz Killington

It sounds like you didn't see the ballot runs, because they definitely had families, kids etc. quite possibly you saw one of the various test runs. I heard there were TC staff on them today.

Busnerd

Quote from: triumph on April 18, 2019, 12:54:18 AMAND first public trip from EACH end on Sat.
(Dammit, I will be away so can't.)
I was referring to this part of Triumph's post.

Don't see how a public ballot was unfair, unless you're a non ACT resident, they only picked 150 names from over 6000 entries so most people missed out, but you can ride it tomorrow without the need to win a ticket.

King of Buses

009 was the first (public) departure from the City, leaving at 0800 this morning.

Believe 005 was the first from Gungahlin.

Toyota Camry

April 23, 2019, 11:00:10 AM #58 Last Edit: April 23, 2019, 11:01:29 AM by Toyota Camry
Trams are currently suspended; I am unaware if replacement buses have been ordered. I have decided to travel on bus route 254 in lieu. It is not clear if replacement buses will stop in tram stops, or on the kerbside; some light rail stops do not have any nearby TC bus stops for a bus to use.

Barry Drive

1. Service was resumed shortly afterwards.

2. There won't be any replacement buses this week while the 200s are still running.

3. Agree that notification and signage of replacement buses needs to exist, and some bus stops need relocating.

Busnerd

It was a brief shut down of the overhead power which appeared to last around 10 minutes before normal services resumed, as usual a vast over-reaction by the local media claiming people were trapped, which is no different to a bus being stuck in a traffic jam and unable to move, yet people don't say they are trapped as it's not an interesting news story.

Secondly, why would buses drive onto the tracks the to pick up passengers, for someone apparently well educated it is an absurd assumption.

Finally, Every stop has a bus stop nearby in both directions, Gungahlin Place has the Gungahlin Place Interchange, Manning Clarke Has bus stops in both directions, although one is closed off at the moment, Mapleton, Nullarbor and Well Station all have bus stops on both sides in both directions, EPIC Is probably the furthest from a bus stop but the EPIC bus stops outside the showgrounds would most likely be the location in this instance. Philip Avenue, Swinden St, Dickson Interchange, Macarthur, Ipima, Elouera and Alinga all have bus stops across the road in both directions as well.

Sylvan Loves Buses

Quote from: Toyota Camry on April 25, 2019, 08:31:57 AMI am curious as to the reason why you were not impressed; personally I suggest that you should have travelled the entire route to Gungahlin Place, that would have given you a larger sample of the route to conduct an assessment based upon.

It wouldn't have, cause I was riding to try out the tram not the journey, and I didn't have the time to go the full way to see how much more disgusting Gungahlin has turned over the past few years, was bad enough last time I went there, esp now that it's plaguing Tuggeranong and Woden, see enough of it...
The only thing about the tram that impressed me was how quickly it could 'traction' (apparently that's what the accelerate lever is called) up to high speeds.

Toyota Camry

Quote from: Sylvan Loves Buses on April 25, 2019, 09:42:15 AMIt wouldn't have, cause I was riding to try out the tram not the journey, and I didn't have the time to go the full way to see how much more disgusting Gungahlin has turned over the past few years, was bad enough last time I went there, esp now that it's plaguing Tuggeranong and Woden, see enough of it...
Do explain what your issue is with Gungahlin, Woden & Tuggeranong; as a proud resident of Ngunnawal, one of Canberra's finest suburbs, it is difficult to see what issue there is with Gungahlin. I suggest you stick to Civic and Belconnen and the 300 series or R4 bus between them; as they are the only two places in Canberra that you approve of.

Busfanatic101


Busnerd

Because an EL1 lives there, obviously.

Toyota Camry

Andrew Leigh MP will be hosting a mobile office onboard various light rail services between Gungahlin Place & Alinga Street this afternoon; as is stated in Dr Leigh's tweet, free travel for MyWay card holders has been arranged. This tweet has been linked below.

https://twitter.com/ALeighMP/status/1120990045035307008

Busfanatic101

Quote from: Toyota Camry on April 26, 2019, 10:34:54 AMAndrew Leigh MP will be hosting a mobile office onboard various light rail services between Gungahlin Place & Alinga Street this afternoon; as is stated in Dr Leigh's tweet, free travel for MyWay card holders has been arranged. This tweet has been linked below.

https://twitter.com/ALeighMP/status/1120990045035307008
More likely he is a little confused about travel fare arrangements

triumph

Had the opportunity on Friday to ride Light Rail several times, remarks:
- All services used ran to time;
- Ride quality was very good but not as good, from my memory from several years ago, as the The G (Gold Coast). I noticed some slight lateral oscillations which on new, grinder treated track in concrete I had not expected;
- 'Flange squeal' rounding the tight curve into Flemington Rd from the Federal Highway was audible inside the LRV;
- Very smooth acceleration and deceleration somewhat spoilt by an initial jerk on starting and more so finally coming to a rest. Far superior though to the yo-yo braking so common with ACTION buses.
- Services were crowded with many children and carers sampling the system.
- Bike users had some difficulty accessing the racks due to ordinary passengers milling about and not knowing where the racks were.
- A wheel 'thrum' reminiscent of braking 'flat' spots on wheels but varying in intensity, and with frequency varying with speed, was present in various modules and vehicles. Bit of a puzzle. Could be something inherent in the CAF mechanism but, to my mind, more likely to be REGULARLY varying rail surface condition. Perhaps an effect from grinding?
- At Dickson Interchange the local map prominently shows some bus stops, but the actual bus interchange is only delineated by a couple of lines requiring reference to the map key, it should be more prominent than minor stops;
- On board announcements and displays indicate verbally and in writing which side to alight from, incorporating an 'arrow' symbol in the display would help some passengers;
- Several intermediate stations displayed the wrong next service with times relating to the following service, very bad PR;
- At Gungahlin Place both platform indicators showed identical details for next departure. OK if only one LRV there/arriving, but hopefully will be different if LRVs are present in both platforms;
- At Alinga Street, City, the LRVs (while I was there) all came and went from the Western side track, but at Gungahlin Place both sides were being used without any pattern that I noticed;
- Arriving LRVs at the terminii displayed 'Not in Service' but passengers boarded anyway.

Overall, despite some very minor quibbles, it seems to me to be an excellent system worthy of use and extending.
 





Sylvan Loves Buses

Quote from: triumph on April 28, 2019, 09:07:33 PM-'Flange squeal' rounding the tight curve into Flemington Rd from the Federal Highway was audible inside the LRV.

Yeah, is it suppose to be that noisy? cause when I got off at the Watson station the other day, I could clearly hear it from that distance.

Busnerd

I assume you mean Phillip Avenue by 'the Watson station'. It is not exactly "meant to be that noisy", could be solved easily but hasn't been for some reason, although it is a common railway noise, it is not ideal and something can be done to reduce it.

As for the Gungahlin/Alinga PID's - have noticed that too, both platforms at each terminus show identical departure information which isn't helpful for passengers, there is also no platform numbers for any stop, despite them all having platform numbers. Have also noticed on occasion, as you say, PID's at all stops not showing the next service but showing the one after that, I've also seen stops showing the next service as due in the following services bottom row and showing the 2nd service in the main part of the screen which is confusing.

Understand what you mean about directional arrows, the trains in Melbourne and LR in Sydney have '>>>' at the end of the scrolling to text to show what side the doors are opening, could be helfpul if you couldn't/didn't hear the announcement.

Agree about the maps, hear that there *might* be new maps coming later on down the road, not sure who designed the ones who are there now although I have heard that Transit Graphics expressed interest in making new/better maps that actually have bus information, not just an icon with a bus and no further information.

Sylvan Loves Buses

Yeah, the Phillip Ave Station, sorry couldn't remember its name from the top of my head.

Quote from: Busnerd on April 29, 2019, 08:37:52 AM...although I have heard that Transit Graphics expressed interest in making new/better maps that actually have bus information, not just an icon with a bus and no further information.

Yeah, bus stops on the individual routes maps would be bloody nice too...

Busnerd

Did notice that, the big map shows stops but the individual ones don't show any, plus they're really missing a city inset to the map, it shows all the city streets as the black and white dotted lines with no close stop/street info unless you go to the individual maps which again don't have any stops on them.

The Transit App for Android does have stops shown on it which is quite helpful.

triumph

At intersection of Northbourne and Alinga diagonally across from Light Rail station at about 4.30pm today. While waiting for 'Walk' LRV arrived. Crossed Alinga and another wait for 'Walk' to station. Together a long time to get to the station and thought at risk of missing the service to Gungahlin.

These long waits are resulting in much darting across against the 'Don't Walk' with the inevitable unsafe outcomes.

Like the Elizabeth/King Streets junction in Sydney and Flinders/Elizabeth Streets junction in Melbourne, both of which have high public transport pedestrian traffic, I think there is merit in arranging the intersection of Alinga St with the 2 carriageways of Northbourne Ave to implement simultaneous all directions 'walk' though with discouragement for the longest diagonals. (This system is often called a 'Barnes Dance' after American traffic engineer Henry Barnes who devised it many decades ago.)

At the LRV, I found it already crowded with staff saying it was 'full' and encouraging patrons to go to the other platform and use the following service. Did travel on the 'full' service, but though quite a lot of standing passengers, it was far from the crush load maximum capacity.

 


Busnerd

Had the same observation yesterday that they could really save a lot of time by making all traffic stop at that intersection to allow a 30-45 second or so all direction pedestrian signal.

triumph

Travelling from Gungahlin to City today (3rd), the LRV was just commencing the curve onto the Federal Highway when a heavy (later learnt a 'full service') brake application brought us abruptly to a stand. A motorist N bound into Flemington Rd had run the red light and was already afoul the adjoining track next to the front of the LRV. The motorist backed away and after a short pause the LRV resumed the trip.

It seemed to me that the driver's subconscious memory had cut in and the driver proceeded as if the vehicle was in an uncontrolled left turn slip lane. No collision, so all ended well, but it was very close. 

Toyota Camry

I have been informed reliably that cardboard light rail vehicles were being dispensed at UNSW Canberra Oval yesterday; I was not able to pick one up, as I am presently in Batehaven.

triumph

Quote from: Busnerd on December 12, 2018, 08:40:09 AMI will agree with ajw373, the only time I see them crossing the median is usually at an intersection, and considering LRV's will be travelling at 70km/h unencumbered, I'm not sure that emergency vehicles would just drive into the corridor without letting the light rail operations know they're doing so, I'm sure it'd be quite the shock to see a vehicle pull on to the tracks in front of a tram at full speed, that said I wouldn't discount it, they drive on tracks in other cities so I guess we wait and see.

The Canberra Times reported this week the Minister confirming that ambulances and emergency vehicles can use the light rail corridor to get around traffic.

Toyota Camry

Canberra Metro Operations are now recruiting for light rail vehicle operators; the link to the job advertisement is listed below. It is unknown if they are recruiting due to an impending increase in the frequency of services, or due to high staff turnover; as a daily light rail commuter, I am hoping that it will be the former.

It is listed on the right side of the advertisement that the average salary for operators is around the $55,000 mark; this is close to in line with APS2 roles at pay point 3. I will not be applying, as my existing salary in an EL1 role is much higher; however I wish good luck to applicants from this board, and hope to see yourself driving my light rail vehicle from Gungahlin Place one day.

https://www.seek.com.au/job/39659849

Stan butler

Quote from: Toyota Camry on August 08, 2019, 05:03:28 PMI will not be applying, as my existing salary in an EL1 role is much higher;

Question - why do you have to keep reminding us that you are an EL1?   For the example above, why not just simply say. "I will not be applying".

This is a serious question

Toyota Camry

August 08, 2019, 09:05:37 PM #79 Last Edit: August 08, 2019, 09:06:37 PM by Toyota Camry
Quote from: Stan butler on August 08, 2019, 08:52:37 PMQuestion - why do you have to keep reminding us that you are an EL1?   For the example above, why not just simply say. "I will not be applying".

This is a serious question
It appears that you have never been a member of the APS; it is very common in most departments and/or agencies to make reference in conversation to employment grades. If you are ever lucky enough to join the APS, you will understand; until then, it is best to not comment.

Stan butler

Quote from: Toyota Camry on August 08, 2019, 09:05:37 PMIt appears that you have never been a member of the APS; it is very common in most departments and/or agencies to make reference in conversation to employment grades. If you are ever lucky enough to join the APS, you will understand; until then, it is best to not comment.

I beg to differ. I well and truly did my time in the APS in more than one department.  I am a retired ex-aps person now and happily enjoying life outside of the fake BS filled bubble called the APS. Finished at EL2 level so I feel I have far more insight into the system then you have.

While we did talk about classifications when planning and discussing roles, we did not present ourselves in an elitist manner - that is, we didn't say "I am an el1 so I think I am better then the other person".  This is the premise that you seem to say in your messages.

In other words - get off your high horse.  Being an EL1 isn't that special.  I've been there and done that - much more than you think.


Northside

Some people would prefer to be a tram driver if that job gives them happiness and they feel like they can do a public good. Life's not all about APS levels and comparing wages.

Toyota Camry

Quote from: Northside on August 08, 2019, 10:18:41 PMSome people would prefer to be a tram driver if that job gives them happiness and they feel like they can do a public good. Life's not all about APS levels and comparing wages.
I am not talking down the position of light rail operator; my statement was purely from a financial point of view. It is a serious job operating a light rail vehicle; it is not like a job that any person could do, such as working for UberEATS or McDonald's.

Busfanatic101

Quote from: Toyota Camry on August 08, 2019, 10:29:39 PMI am not talking down the position of light rail operator; my statement was purely from a financial point of view. It is a serious job operating a light rail vehicle; it is not like a job that any person could do, such as working for UberEATS or McDonald's.
Now you're talking down Maccas and uber workers. Each job has it's own set of unique demands, and each worker has unique circumstances. Everyone deserves respect. A job does not make you more or less superior than another.

ajw373


Busnerd

Back on topic please everyone or the off topic posts will be moderated (removed)

As for the wage, the graph shows the average pay for that type of role, not specifically stating that it is $55,000 although one would expect it to be in the ballpark.

Bus 503

Can anyone advise on the departures from Alinga Street between 18:00–18:30?
I'm wondering what time and how frequently services depart from there.
I caught the 18:15 tram on Monday, but it disobeyed the platform overhead screen and departed at 18:10.
I understood that they were going to make trams every six minutes until 18:30, "extending" peak hour (I think this was in the Canberra Times). Is this already happening? I assume not, as there was no 18:06 tram.
(Side note that the 18:17 tram is a short-run to EPIC.)

Barry Drive

Funny you should ask. I recently asked the same question, and this is what I was told:

1815 departure moved to 1810
1817 X1 to EPIC now full length service.

The announcement was that they would run "every 10 minutes" between 1800 & 1830. But this change hasn't been reflected in the GTFS so the apps still show the original timetable. And by the looks of it, the PIDs haven't been changed either.

Northside

A 10 min frequency till 7pm would be nice. I'm sitting on a 1845 tram home and it's as packed as a peak hour trip (barely room to take a deep breath)!

triumph

Quote from: triumph on May 11, 2019, 12:27:43 AMThe Canberra Times reported this week the Minister confirming that ambulances and emergency vehicles can use the light rail corridor to get around traffic.

Adding, I have been told by a very reliable source that it is more than 'can use'. The Government requires the system to accommodate emergency service vehicle use.

triumph

Quote from: triumph on February 22, 2019, 11:42:33 PMCame across an interesting item in the engineering report on the proposal to add a light rail right turn from King William St to North Terrace (East) in Adelaide. The limitations of the latest modern multi-module light rail vehicles in Adelaide has effectively made the proposal unfeasable. Adelaide's newest are 5 module Alstom Citadis 302. There is an articulation between each module BUT only horizontally (yaw). This enables sharp curvature with little overhangs. In PITCH however, to accommodate vertical curves (sags, crests) there is only ONE articulation point being at the join of the second to third module (or from the other end, the 3rd and 4th module) and aggravated by stiff bogie suspension. This pitch limitation was a major factor in making the proposal unworkable (the intersection has complex gradients).
Whilst this relates to the Citadis, I wonder if our CAF 5 module trams have a similar articulation arrangement? Searching the internet has so far not answered this question.
It could be very relevant to stage 2 design near Parliament House.

It has been confirmed that our CAF Light Rail Vehicles are the same. Only ONE articulation point for vertical curve (sag, crest) negotiation. It is at one end of the R unit where it connects to either the S1 or S2 unit. This is a significant factor in designing a longitudinal track profile.

Toyota Camry

Last night, emergency rail buses provided R1 services north of Dickson Interchange for the last two hours of service; vehicles were supplied by Transport Canberra, however it is unknown which buses were used.

triumph

Quote from: Toyota Camry on December 09, 2019, 10:59:37 AMLast night, emergency rail buses provided R1 services north of Dickson Interchange for the last two hours of service; vehicles were supplied by Transport Canberra, however it is unknown which buses were used.
Interesting, if 'emergency' it implies limited or no prior notice. Considering that ACTION regularly pleads over the radio for drivers to cover various runs, there aren't any or extremely few standby drivers, so how was this staffed so late of a Sunday night? Equally interesting is what was the 'emergency'? We may never know.

Busfanatic101

Quote from: Toyota Camry on December 09, 2019, 10:59:37 AMLast night, emergency rail buses provided R1 services north of Dickson Interchange for the last two hours of service; vehicles were supplied by Transport Canberra, however it is unknown which buses were used.
Didn't know TC had any railbuses in its fleet 🤔🤨

Toyota Camry

Quote from: triumph on December 09, 2019, 11:40:36 AMInteresting, if 'emergency' it implies limited or no prior notice. Considering that ACTION regularly pleads over the radio for drivers to cover various runs, there aren't any or extremely few standby drivers, so how was this staffed so late of a Sunday night? Equally interesting is what was the 'emergency'? We may never know.
I am not privy to the exact details, as I was informed by an APS4 in my section who was travelling home to the Phillip Avenue stop; from another website, I have obtained some extra details, which are posted below. My information provided previously was incorrect; it was actually on Saturday night when this occurred.

Quote from: undefinedSo I was in Civic this Saturday night and when trying to go back to Gungahlin I noticed the trams were only running to Dickson. Then there were replacement buses running from Dickson to Nullarbor, then another tram from Nullarbor to Gungahlin. Emergency vehicles were gathered at what looked to be the Sanford St-Flemington Rd intersection. I'm guessing this happened somewhere between 10pm and 12am?
Quote from: undefinedI was on the tram that got stopped on the tracks. Was a serious car accident across the tram tracks. The tram wasn't involved but we were stuck in the tram over 1 hour while emergency services did their thing. It didn't look great and was pretty full on. Haven't seen any follow up but hope the people in the car were alright.

Bus 503

Quote from: Barry Drive on August 22, 2019, 10:15:45 AMFunny you should ask. I recently asked the same question, and this is what I was told:

1815 departure moved to 1810
1817 X1 to EPIC now full length service.

The announcement was that they would run "every 10 minutes" between 1800 & 1830. But this change hasn't been reflected in the GTFS so the apps still show the original timetable. And by the looks of it, the PIDs haven't been changed either.

Caught the 18:15 departure yesterday that was supposedly moved to 18:10. However, the LRV departed at 18:15 as per the PIDs.
Perhaps the 18:10 departure is an unofficial occurrence that doesn't occur during the school holidays?
(Whenever the 18:10 departure did occur in the past, the PIDs didn't update to suggest this earlier departure.)
The 18:17 departure came along after, and the desto stated "EPIC", so I doubt that was full length as above.

Busnerd

Due to school holidays the regular timetable has returned being:

18:00 ALG - GGN
18:15 ALG - GGN
18:17 ALG - EPC
18:30 ALG - GGN

triumph

TC Service Alerts has announced a period of night maintenance (weather permitting) of the Light Rail Network. The work is mostly in the night gap in operation, but for a few days evening work is also programmed.
 
'Bustitution' using TC buses will occur between Dickson and Gungahlin for services leaving Alinga St after 7.30pm and Gungahlin after 7.45pm for the evenings from Sunday 26th Jan to Thurs 30th Jan inclusive.

The Light Rail will continue to operate between Alinga St and Dickson with mode change at Dickson. Tap on/off on the buses will not be required.

It seems some quite substantial 'fettling up' is needed on the system after the bedding in during 2019.

triumph

'Bustitution'.

Took a trip from Gungahlin to City and back yesterday evening.
Surprisingly, light rail works didn't appear to be intensive. There was drainage (?) activity at Mapleton Avenue, a crew working at the depot junction, roadwork at Epic, and a few works vehicles observed at intervals (some moving along the road).

The Light Rail service was maintained between Alinga St and Dickson Interchange only. LRVs 006 and 014 being used. In addition LRV010 was in the same section for driver training (useful too as cover for breakdowns, LRV recovery, etc?).

At Dickson Interchange City bound departures were from the arrival platform, then via the crossover near the City end of the Platforms to the normal City bound track.

Alinga St, Dickson Interchange, and Gungahlin platforms were staffed to guide customers (very little to do at Gungahlin - would have been tedious for staff), but no sign of staff at intermediate stops between Dickson and Gungahlin.
 
Destination out of Alinga St displayed 'Dickson Interchange', and on- board normal announcement approaching Dickson of service termination but no mention of mode change.

Bus arrangements seem to be by 'bendy bus' with journey time around 20min. Noted bus I was on stopped to set down at a stop midway between two LR Stops. 506 and 680 were noted with another blue 'bendy' seen. Nominally 3 buses could cover a 1/4hr service, but to allow driver breaks, etc there was probably a 4th (or driver changes).
 
Services commenced and ended at Platform 3 Gungahlin and commenced from Platform 2 at the Dickson Interchange. Arrival at Dickson however was at the Light Rail Bus Replacement stop in Northbourne Ave. The actual Interchange would have been better but the reversal would have been more complicated. Ample time to transfer on the City bound service I was on was available so alternatively passengers could have conveniently stayed on till the bus arrived at Platform 2 (perhaps the bus was a little late and missed the preceding Light Rail service).
Tap on/off on the buses was not required. Overall Gungahlin to City time on the service I was on was about 40min much of which was waiting departure at Dickson Interchange (10min after my arrival on platform).
Routing Gungahlin to Dickson was via The Valley Ave and Manning Clark thence parallel to the Light Rail with small diversion to service road at Epic. The return route was slightly different with the bus continuing in Flemington Rd to turn right into Kate Crace then into Ernest Cavanagh to Gungahlin Place. The service I was on set down and then loaded immediately and departed for Dickson.Destination display was 'Light Rail Replacement' and route 'R1'.

Difference in ride quality between bus (especially in the rear half) and LRV was very obvious.

Overall, a well organised and implemented arrangement.

Bus 400

I smell an election coming up, the ACT Government is set to fund studies into Stages 3 (Belconnen to Airport) & 4 (Woden to Tuggeranong).

https://www.railexpress.com.au/act-government-fund-studies-light-rail-extensions/

Sent from my SM-T810 using Tapatalk


triumph

Does anyone know how Canberra Metro Operations formally identify each of the two tracks? (Down/Up; Northbound/Southbound; West/East; 1/2; etc)

triumph

Light rail terminal operations usually involving crossing over to the departure track on arrival, so departures are straight ahead. (At busy times the reverse procedure is also used, mostly alternatively.) The actual cross overs are a 'scissors' arrangement where the crossover tracks intersect each other midway.

But in wet weather, such as happened today, the reverse of the usual routine is used. LRVs arrive straight ahead and cross over on departure. Why? Well it happens that run-off water tends to wash debris (from the landscaping mostly) towards the terminals with the points used to divert to the crossover for arriving (being the outermost) thus being at possible greater risk of the blade, due to debris, not being fully home, with (if unnoticed) consequent derailment or 'splitting the points' risk. Reversing the normal arrival/departure procedure at less busy times (such as weekend services) conveniently provides risk mitigation by the inner points being used to divert and outer arriving points being locked in the straight ahead position, also this reduces frequent inspection and debris clearing during wet weather costs. 
(Note: Debris reaching the inner arriving points tends to wash straight through, so operating the points to crossover on departure is less likely to cause problems.)

ajw373

Noticed today that the carpark next to the Swindon Street stop has been resigned as a Park and Ride. Gather that means users now need a park and ride permit to park there. Grrrrr

Barry Drive

I saw that recently as well. The signs are not "Permit Zone" signs even though they are red. So they may not legally be required to show a permit. Also, the location is not listed on the TC website (yet).

If in doubt, call 131710 or 132281.

ajw373

Must admit I've not understood the requirement for permits except in locations like town centres where the parking is paid and park and ride "free". Elsewhere at places like Swindon street don't see the point for a permit system. Should just be first in best server we which is what has been the case at Swindon st for the past 18 months

Busnerd

Presumably as all the parking around Dickson Shops are paid/timed, as such that carpark you speak of usually fills up quite early. I assume the reason for a permit here is to push people to use public transport by giving them free parking at the expense of locals just parking and walking to the shops to work to save money on parking fees.

ajw373

Quote from: Busnerd on December 17, 2020, 09:29:52 AMPresumably as all the parking around Dickson Shops are paid/timed, as such that carpark you speak of usually fills up quite early. I assume the reason for a permit here is to push people to use public transport by giving them free parking at the expense of locals just parking and walking to the shops to work to save money on parking fees.

Actually Dickson workers park closer to the Mouat Street intersection adjacent to the ovals. I've never seen anyone park at Swindon Street stop and walk towards Dickson.

Busnerd

I see that all as essentially the same carpark, also Swinden*.

ajw373

Quote from: Busnerd on December 20, 2020, 07:28:23 PMI see that all as essentially the same carpark, also Swinden*.

Park and ride signs are only on the section immediately adjacent to the stop.

ajw373

Quote from: Barry Drive on December 16, 2020, 07:16:52 PMI saw that recently as well. The signs are not "Permit Zone" signs even though they are red. So they may not legally be required to show a permit. Also, the location is not listed on the TC website (yet)

Swindon Street now appears on the Park and Ride map and doesn't require a permit.

So begs the question why they bothered changing the signs at the stop, though make sense having the blue park and ride signs on the main road pointing in.

Busnerd


triumph

Light Rail delay today
Late mid afternoon on 004 arrived N bound at Dickson Interchange. 005 was waiting S bound. Waited and watched. 008 came and went N bound. 005 still there. Reason now apparent. Ambulance arrived and someone on 005 was attended to. OO6 arrived N bound and both 006 and 005 departed simultaneously, with ambulance then leaving. N bound platform quickly became crowded with school students. 010,013, and 011 followed 005 in quick succession, then 009. Next N bound service was 005 back from Alinga St and already crowded. 010 arrived shortly after and picked up a substantial number of students unable to board 005, still some passengers incl person with a bike left over. Backlog cleared shortly after by 013. Service PA announcements referred to 'experiencing slight delays'.

It was interesting that though it is claimed there are standby staff, no LRV arrived to reverse over the crossover as soon as 005 left to fill in N bound, nor, alternatively, was any of the lightly loaded close headway LRVs following 005 terminated and reversed over the crossover to provide a fill in N bound. No doubt there was initial doubt about the nature and length of the delay and the actual delays were perhaps marginal which would mitigate turning out a standby LRV (it is even possible an earlier incident/failure could have seen the standby already deployed). But not terminating one of the closely spaced S bound LRVs and reversing back over the crossover to provide a fill in N bound service indicates a certain operational rigidity or lack of agility in responding to a service interruption. Again as the situation evolved and information was gained there would have been inevitably some initial hesitation in response. But quite clearly the moment 006 departed to the N it was clear that without a fill in passengers would have to wait for 005 to return from Alinga St and for the following service too.

Sylvan Loves Buses

Just read the email regarding the works around the London Circuit bridge. Isn't it a little excessive for the southbound buses to go via Constitution Avenue when they've usually gone straight to Vernon Circle in the past?
It probably doesn't matter as barely anyone's on the buses so the delays wouldn't be that bad at present.

Bus 400

That map is for general traffic that encounter the road closure on London Circuit. 

Going by the TC website, the Legislating Assembly stops are closed this weekend. So it's safe to say Commonly Avenue buses will go via Vernon Circle

narc855

Yesterday I noticed that the speed limit of the track has reduced from 70 to 65 (there's still a small part with a speed limit of 70), anyone knows when was it changed?

Busnerd

You will have to be more specific of which part you are referring to.

narc855

Quote from: Busnerd on December 14, 2021, 07:18:18 PMYou will have to be more specific of which part you are referring to.
Like Sandford St to Well Station Drive, can't be specific enough however I think all tracks with a speed limit of 65km/h are previously 70km/h. A small length of the track (after Flemington Rd turns westward) still has a speed limit of 70km/h btw.

Busnerd

I think that happened a fair while ago, either last year or early this year. That said, I've noticed that between Macarthur Avenue and Dickson it used to be 50km/h and is now 60km/h - I think these changed around the same time.

triumph

Quote from: narc855 on December 15, 2021, 08:41:44 AMLike Sandford St to Well Station Drive, can't be specific enough however I think all tracks with a speed limit of 65km/h are previously 70km/h. A small length of the track (after Flemington Rd turns westward) still has a speed limit of 70km/h btw.
Here's a possible clue. The Sydney morning Herald 'revealed last week' that CAF had written to the Government (that is the NSW government) in November 'suggesting the cracks (inner West route trams) had been caused by the trams running through bends in the tracks at relative high speed'. Umm. Surely the manufacturer has properly specified performance parameters and relative limitations. I find it hard to believe that usage was beyond those specifications, and to just suggest..... Well! Never-the-less Sandford Street to Well Station is a curvy section and perhaps caution pending a fix has been recommended. Perhaps there are other non-performance related concerns such as minimising wear and tear.

Secondly the NSW Transport Minister and Transport for NSW Chief Operations Officer have announced that the inner west service, initially as far as Lilyfield, will resume in February using several trams (initially only 4, unstated as to whether coupled sets or single but assume single, to suit platform lengths) from the CBD line. So it appears that platform height and wheel profile issues are being overcome. How, is not indicated. Anything from one or more of  precise measurement to track mods to wheel mods/replacement or even complete bogie replacement could be speculated. Anyone know any facts? (Whilst the connection is the same model tram here as the cracked ones in Sydney and it is interesting, perhaps this subject is in danger of drifting away from Canberra matters?)

     

ajw373

Quote from: triumph on December 17, 2021, 11:12:33 PMHere's a possible clue. The Sydney morning Herald 'revealed last week' that CAF had written to the Government (that is the NSW government) in November 'suggesting the cracks (inner West route trams) had been caused by the trams running through bends in the tracks at relative high speed'. Umm. Surely the manufacturer has properly specified performance parameters and relative limitations. I find it hard to believe that usage was beyond those specifications, and to just suggest..... Well! Never-the-less Sandford Street to Well Station is a curvy section and perhaps caution pending a fix has been recommended. Perhaps there are other non-performance related concerns such as minimising wear and tear.

Secondly the NSW Transport Minister and Transport for NSW Chief Operations Officer have announced that the inner west service, initially as far as Lilyfield, will resume in February using several trams (initially only 4, unstated as to whether coupled sets or single but assume single, to suit platform lengths) from the CBD line. So it appears that platform height and wheel profile issues are being overcome. How, is not indicated. Anything from one or more of  precise measurement to track mods to wheel mods/replacement or even complete bogie replacement could be speculated. Anyone know any facts? (Whilst the connection is the same model tram here as the cracked ones in Sydney and it is interesting, perhaps this subject is in danger of drifting away from Canberra matters?)

     

Not sure how that is related. Vast majority of the track is straight.

triumph

Quote from: narc855 on December 15, 2021, 08:41:44 AMLike Sandford St to Well Station Drive, can't be specific enough however I think all tracks with a speed limit of 65km/h are previously 70km/h. A small length of the track (after Flemington Rd turns westward) still has a speed limit of 70km/h btw.

Quote from: ajw373 on December 19, 2021, 06:06:53 PMNot sure how that is related. Vast majority of the track is straight.

Sandford Street to Well Station Drive is quite curvy, and being the length cited (as I quoted previously in my comment), is what my comment clearly related to.

ajw373

Quote from: triumph on December 19, 2021, 09:16:18 PMSandford Street to Well Station Drive is quite curvy, and being the length cited (as I quoted previously in my comment), is what my comment clearly related to.


That section has one long sweeping curve and very minor splaying at stops both of which are in the grand scheme of things is nothing.

Especially when compared to the curved sections of the inner west line in Sydney. The section from the Casino to Fish Markets has about 5 changes in curve direction which i believe where the main issue is.

But even beyond Lilyfield the line is very rarely straight with gentle but frequent changes in curve direction.   

triumph

Quote from: ajw373 on December 20, 2021, 07:01:18 PMThat section has one long sweeping curve and very minor splaying at stops both of which are in the grand scheme of things is nothing.

Especially when compared to the curved sections of the inner west line in Sydney. The section from the Casino to Fish Markets has about 5 changes in curve direction which i believe where the main issue is.

But even beyond Lilyfield the line is very rarely straight with gentle but frequent changes in curve direction. 

Actually, ignoring the splaying, there are 4 curves in the section, some though almost straight. I agree with the inference that it is hardly comparable, but what we don't know is what CAF may or may not have said and if the speed limit change decision related to that at all. Nor do we know what the upper speed limit for the profile of the two main curves could be. I posted the information as a possible 'clue', not a fact.