Bus withdrawals: 2024-25

[Sylvan Loves Buses]

I feel like we should have a dedicated CNG retirement thread now that the Renault's are pretty much gone. I know many people aren't too fond of the CNG buses, but I grew up with them so I still enjoy them over most of the rest of the fleet (excluding the rattling). I could've missed my bus today had I not heard 360 pulling up to the corner before my stop, these buses like the Renault's are what's left of the familiar engine sounds, they too will be missed.

[L94UBbusfan]

I agree. The CNG bus retirements have been lingering around the Renault retirement topic for a while. As you can probably tell by my username I really like the Scania L94UB buses, mainly due to the sound they make, imo them and the 14.5m Scania's are the best sounding buses in the fleet. For me it's a shame they are going. But one thing I won't miss one bit are the rattles. Some don't rattle too bad, but others are just plain awful.

So far, 322, 324-326, 342, 344-346, 352 and 365 have been retired (325 and 346 are still to be confirmed as retired as of August 9 2024). That's 10 already gone  . I'm a little surprised that a fair few of the 34_ buses have been retired earlier than others, but I'd assume the withdrawal order for all CNG buses so far has been based on mechanical issues rather than age.

[Cutepattern1098]

Not too sure if this is the right thread to post but after the Gas buses are gone what would be next? I assume the Irisbuses will go at the same time as the gas buses or soon after. Next in line would be the 2010-2012 Scania tag-axles and artics? I assume those would require and like for like replacement order at the very least.

[Cutepattern1098]

If my own employer is anything to go by it seems we started retiring our own identical Irisbus Agroalines starting last year in favour of Volvo B10BLEs and Mercedes O405NHs form interstate CDC fleets, so the Irisbuses will be retired at t he same time with the Gas buses.

[Sylvan Loves Buses]

Was thinking this myself yesterday when I was riding 481. I would imagine the Euro 5 stuff would be due to go next, but the question I'm more interesting in is what will replace the steertags? They're great high capacity buses (even though no one realises you can have more standing room by lifting the seats in the first half of the bus), but they also present so many problems.
Would we assume they'll just get replaced by 125-150% more standard buses, or might we finally get to expand the artic fleet, electric artics are a thing in Australia right?
Tuggeranong depot was designed for double/bi artics (3 carriages), maybe we could finally see lightrail-like-capacity buses on the rapids too... lol jk, that'll never happen if it hadn't already.

[Bus 400]

We have to remember what stage Woden LR will be up to by the time Stag & artic replacement is due. Which should replace the need for more high capacity buses. 

[Sylvan Loves Buses]

Yes of course I forget, TC doesn't care about Tuggeranong Valley residents.

[triumph]

Yes of course I forget, TC doesn't care about Tuggeranong Valley residents.

Can't quite agree with that. They have the benefit of 3 different route peak services, whereas North of the Lake no longer have direct peak services.

Agreed Light Rail in North of the Lake. It would have provided more political impetus to have started at an extremity such as Tuggeranong and worked in. (Some rural councils have done this with sealing roads.)

My impression is that the nature of local services from Tuggeranong, Woden, Belconnen, and Gungahlin are much the same.

[L94UBbusfan]

after the Gas buses are gone what would be next?

I've been thinking about this too. If the retirements are in order, the diesel MANs should be the first to go, followed closely by the steer-tags, however I did hear somewhere that the steer-tags would go after the CNG buses, and even before in some cases. For what replaces the steer-tags I think it will just be more standard buses. While in theory steer-tags work great on rapid routes with high capacity, that's about all it when it comes to benefits, as they are very hard to use on anything that isn't a high capacity rapid route.

We have to remember what stage Woden LR will be up to by the time Stag & artic replacement is due. Which should replace the need for more high capacity buses.

While stage 2 of light rail will reduce the need for high capacity buses, I doubt it will completely eliminate them being required. There will have to be some new electric artics ordered at some point, but that's something to figure out in 5-10 years, not now.

[Cutepattern1098]

For Tag Axle replacements, Yutong already makes a Tag axle version of the E12 for Scandinavian Markets called the E15.

http://yutongeurobus.se/wp-content/uploads/2021/03/Yutong-E15-broschyr-2021-enkel-sid.pdf

[Cutepattern1098]

Was thinking this myself yesterday when I was riding 481. I would imagine the Euro 5 stuff would be due to go next, but the question I'm more interesting in is what will replace the steertags? They're great high capacity buses (even though no one realises you can have more standing room by lifting the seats in the first half of the bus), but they also present so many problems.
Would we assume they'll just get replaced by 125-150% more standard buses, or might we finally get to expand the artic fleet, electric artics are a thing in Australia right?
Tuggeranong depot was designed for double/bi artics (3 carriages), maybe we could finally see lightrail-like-capacity buses on the rapids too... lol jk, that'll never happen if it hadn't already.

the only manufacturers I believe to offer an Electric Articulateds in Australia ATM is Ebusco and Hess. Yutong, Volvo, Mercedes and BYD also makes them for other markets.

[Bus 400]

Bus 349 rego hasn't been renewed for the next 12 months. 

I'm assuming this is the next CNG to go.

[L94UBbusfan]

Bus 349 rego hasn't been renewed for the next 12 months.

I'm assuming this is the next CNG to go.

Geez another 34_ bus retired, they must have something against them.

Interestingly, 346s registration has been renewed. It seems to be the only withdrawn L94 that has had a registration renewal. Could this mean there could be another potential use for it?

[CBRFlyer]

Both 346 and 325 were parked separately to the rest of the gas retirements, it might be assumed that they were left in a position where gas tanks could be swapped if something else were to have a mechanical failure, potentially this means that 349 had a mechanical failure and 346 may return to service 

[Sylvan Loves Buses]

Not really paying as much attention to this topic as I probably should be, but I was down at the depot a little while ago and saw the flashy new tow truck pulling a GAS scania in, I would imagine whichever that one was will probably be the next to go. Also saw 820 and 821 through the fence.

[L94UBbusfan]

Not really paying as much attention to this topic as I probably should be, but I was down at the depot a little while ago and saw the flashy new tow truck pulling a GAS scania in, I would imagine whichever that one was will probably be the next to go. Also saw 820 and 821 through the fence.

Could have been 349 since its last actual service was on the 16th of August.

On an unrelated note, as I was writing this is just saw 820 pass by, how ironic.

[L94UBbusfan]

potentially this means that 349 had a mechanical failure and 346 may return to service

And indeed 346 has re-entered service. I also noticed recently that 340 was making some very odd sounds when accelerating, I've never heard an L94 make this sound before and I wonder if it will be one on the way out sooner rather than later.

[CBRFlyer]

340 has very loud hubs at the moment, nothing to worry about...I hope. It is one of the better ones to drive currently 

[Sylvan Loves Buses]

After I fully recover from my surgery I think I should have an outing. I'm getting worried I might miss out on my now second favourite bus type (again)

[L94UBbusfan]

Has anyone seen 321 recently? I haven't seen it in a while, hopefully it hasn't been withdrawn.

UPDATE 18/9/24: I saw 321 today on a 26, it is safe and sound (for now)

[Sylvan Loves Buses]

Has anyone seen 321 recently? I haven't seen it in a while, hopefully it hasn't been withdrawn.

Saw it today doing a R4 to Tuggeranong I think. I too haven't seen it in ages.

[triumph]

Also noted 321 in service at Platform 2 Westfield Belconnen mid-afternoon, Oct 15th. (Was originally mentioned in 'What PT did you get Today' topic.)

[L94UBbusfan]

Saw it today doing a R4 to Tuggeranong I think. I too haven't seen it in ages.

Nice to see the older L94s are still around (for now), I rode 328 recently and it was one of the better ones I've been on. While going through the Monthly Movements page on the Fleetwiki I noticed that it says 356 has been withdrawn, however the actual Fleetwiki page for 356 does not have it as withdrawn (yet). To me at least it seems unlikely a bus with an all over advertisement which was recently installed has been withdrawn, unless there was a severe mechanical problem.

[L94UBbusfan]

An answer to this question from the Legislative Assembly surrounding CNG buses reliability rates has revealed that 15 additional CNG Scanias will be withdrawn this financial year.

[Barry Drive]

I've been trying to work out how many buses might be withdrawn in 2025, and I can't give a definite answer. Nothing I've seen suggests any fleet growth this year - all new buses are meant to be replacements.

We've currently got 6 Yutongs yet to enter service; based on the fleet size at December 2023 compared to December 2024, there are 3 additional buses in service; and we can expect at a minimum 30 new Yutongs this year (12 of which are due by June). There's been no word on whether we can expect any further Scania K320UBs.

So, on that basis, there could be 38* buses withdrawn in 2025. The number may vary depending on whether any more than 30 Yutongs are delivered.

There are 43 CNG Scania L94s in service with at least 12 expected to be withdrawn by June.
* Edit: 38, because 839 is the first of the expected 30 buses for 2025.

[Barry Drive]

An answer to this question from the Legislative Assembly surrounding CNG buses reliability rates has revealed that 15 additional CNG Scanias will be withdrawn this financial year.

A reminder: once Woden Depot opens (Monday 28 April), there will be additional Yutong buses in service which will result in a mass withdrawal of Scania L94 CNG buses. The number of buses to be withdrawn is unknown, but my estimate is a minimum of 20 - reducing the fleet size by half, if not more.

So tomorrow and next week may be the final opportunity to travel on (and/or photograph) some of these vehicles.

[L94UBbusfan]

I'll try my hardest to get some final L94 rides in next week, hopefully I can get a couple more in before the mass withdrawal. Luckily for me over the past 3 months I've been able to ride heaps of L94s, but with the withdrawals and the new timetable I doubt I will be able to get more than 5 rides the rest of this year (and that's optimistic). Sadly for me at this rate I expect all L94s to be gone before the end of the year     

[Sylvan Loves Buses]

What's going on with the Irisbuses?

[L94UBbusfan]

I'm not 100% sure, but from what I know the Irisbuses aren't going just yet because many L94s CNG tanks are either already expired, or are about to expire very soon. The Irisbuses don't have this problem since they are diesel, I expect them to be the next to go after the L94s, then after the Irisbuses the MAN gases will go.

[Barry Drive]

I expect (the Irisbuses) to be the next to go after the L94s, then after the Irisbuses the MAN gases will go.

I don't have the source right now - Minister Steel has mentioned that all CNG buses will be withdrawn this year. At the time I was sceptical, but it looks like they're bringing forward enough Yutong deliveries to make it happen.

Irisbuses will probably be next year - and may have to wait for the next bus supply contract, or an extension of the Yutong contract.

[Bus 400]

What's going on with the Irisbuses?

They'll be the next Renault's & be around another 10-15 years 😜

[L94UBbusfan]

Minister Steel has mentioned that all CNG buses will be withdrawn this year.

Really need to ride some more gas buses then 

I didn't think all the gas buses would be gone so soon, but thinking about it, it makes sense to withdraw all CNG buses and remove the need for CNG refueling facilities, in which that space could be used to expand charging facilities at Tuggeranong. Also, could CNGs be used as training buses in the short term, or is it better to just keep the Renaults as trainers until the Irisbuses are withdrawn?

Good to know the Irisbuses will still be around for a bit longer though.

[L94UBbusfan]

Good to know the Irisbuses will still be around for a bit longer though.

Or will they? Since the opening of Woden Depot, 6 Irisbuses have been reported as withdrawn while just 2 L94s have been withdrawn. I thought the gas buses were the priority to be withdrawn because of the gas tanks expiring, is that still the plan?

[Barry Drive]

is that still the plan?

Short answer:   ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

Longer answer: it really comes down to how many new buses will arrive this year. Just about every announcement from the Minister or TC says something different. Minster Steel keeps mentioning (in the Assembly, mainly): one new Electric bus per week - but for how long? We've already received 29 this year, but how many more are to come, given the Minister has also stated that deliveries will continue until 2026.

[Bus 400]

It'll be curious if we ever see the leased Scanias & if that would make a difference. 

[L94UBbusfan]

Just drove past 308 on a 20, I checked Fleetwiki which said it was withdrawn on May 26th. Must have been reactivated for some reason.

[CBRFlyer]

318 was also back in service this afternoon operating a 28 which was the service starting at John Paul College 

[triumph]

Just drove past 308 on a 20, I checked Fleetwiki which said it was withdrawn on May 26th. Must have been reactivated for some reason.

Given 318 is reported active, are you positively certain? I find it very easy to misread numbers from fleeting/angled glances whilst driving.

[Barry Drive]

Given 318 is reported active, are you positively certain?

It was definitely both. It might only be short term until some buses get sent across from Woden Depot.

[L94UBbusfan]

Given 318 is reported active, are you positively certain? I find it very easy to misread numbers from fleeting/angled glances whilst driving.

That's what I thought, but I thought to myself "well it can't be 318 because that's withdrawn too" (at the time I didn't know 318 was brought back into service) Thought it might have been 313, but I drove up next to it when it was stopped at the lights and confirmed that it was 308. I was pretty shocked to see it. I'd expect it has something to do with Belconnen awaiting some Bustechs from Woden that haven't been transferred back yet.

[L94UBbusfan]

It is now worth noting with the recent L94 withdrawals that there are now more L94s withdrawn than currently in service. Only 22 L94s currently remain in service (on the monthly movements page, 331, 332, 350 and 351 are said to be withdrawn, but fleetwiki pages say they are still in service)

[triumph]

......... (on the monthly movements page, 331, 332, 350 and 351 are said to be withdrawn, but fleetwiki pages say they are still in service)

This confusion seems to occur quite often. Is there an explanation?

[CBRFlyer]

Running a wiki isn't a paid job...changing the front page is a quick way to notify of withdrawal and the rest can be fixed at a later date when there's more time...a weekend for example 

[Barry Drive]

At the Budget Estimates: some additional information, but still not enough.

It was mentioned that the ideal fleet size is 456 but that there are 10 buses "pending withdrawal", so the current fleet size is 466. Although that number includes the 4 Custom Denning Elements – 2 of which are not operating.

So allowing for Yutongs still to be delivered (20 - including those already delivered, but not in service) there might be around 6 - 10 CNG buses (or Irisbuses) remaining by the end of the year unless we receive some diesel Scanias.

[Bus 400]

unless we receive some diesel Scanias.

I'm assuming that certain contract wasn't mentioned. 

[L94UBbusfan]

It was mentioned that the ideal fleet size is 456 but that there are 10 buses "pending withdrawal", so the current fleet size is 466. Although that number includes the 4 Custom Denning Elements – 2 of which are not operating.

Well that explains why it's become a whole lot harder to find CNGs recently. A month or so ago, there used to be around 10-15 CNGs that went through the city between 3:30-5pm, now that number is lucky to pass 5, Irisbus shifts are becoming less common too. I wouldn't hit the panic button just yet, but if you are looking for certain buses (especially L94s and Irises) I'd definitely go looking sooner rather than later.

[Barry Drive]

I'm assuming that certain contract wasn't mentioned.

You assume incorrectly. It was asked about, but since there were no definite dates and numbers involved (just "were still negotiating"), there's nothing new to report.

There were also questions put to the MyWay+ enquiry regarding unfitted buses / upcoming withdrawals. The answers were the same: there are an additional 10 withdrawals expected above the new Yutong deliveries; and that all buses will be MyWay+ equipped by the end of the year.
However, by my count, to fully withdraw the CNG fleet by December will require at least some of the outstanding Scanias to be put into service.

[triumph]

......
It was mentioned that the ideal fleet size is 456 .......

Which leads to the question:
How many serviceable buses are needed to cover the current timetable during school terms?

[L94UBbusfan]

On Wednesday (13/8/25) the final 4 Irisbus Agora Lines operating in Canberra were withdrawn, bringing an end to passenger Irisbus Agora Line operations for ACTION/TC. I'm not sure which bus operated the final service, although the final service may have been the 6:43pm R8 from Gungahlin to Belconnen on the 13th of August, which was an Iris route and had no real time data on the day, although unfortunately I can not 100% confirm the route was an Iris. R.I.P Irisbus Agora Line 2003-2025.

Also what's the likelihood the Irises will be used as training buses to replace the Renaults?

[triumph]

A unique aspect of the Iris fleet was that they had no rear door. No doubt a particular concern during the Covid epidemic.
Another aspect, though not unique, was no external route number display at the rear.  A COTA project some years ago into public transport usability noted the lack of rear route number as a significant issue With other retirements happening, soon there will be no (or very few) buses in the fleet without route number display at the rear.