Bus Discussion (2019-)

[L94UBbusfan]

You know TC will be worried when the CNG buses are all out on a Sunday.

Funny you say that, I've been thinking about this whole fuel crisis a bit recently, absolute worst case scenario if public transport is no longer allocated diesel fuel then TC would have to exclusively operate electric and CNG buses. The good thing is we are in a pretty good position compared to many other Australian cities with roughly 26% of our buses not running on diesel. Although I doubt it will get that extreme, firstly Australia is still getting fuel shipments and secondly TC is a government company so I'd assume they'd get fuel priority over other smaller companies if fuel problems became more severe. I would hope that TC is trying to utilise the electrics as much as possible right now to try to preserve fuel.

(especially finding out from someone on Sunday that the cost of diesel has trippled)

I wouldn't say trippled but before this whole thing the price of diesel was sitting around the $1.90/$2 per liter mark and now it's creeping towards the $2.75 per liter mark (and only going up, it's $3 in some regional areas already). It's a definite increase but it's worth keeping in mind TC isn't paying that price since they get it through wholesale.

[triumph]

With all the fuel problems happening at the moment (especially finding out from someone on Sunday that the cost of diesel has trippled) should we be worried about fares or buses not turning up at some point in the near future? or god forbid another interum network...

Tripled price is an unreliable forecast sometimes being guessed at in lay circles.

Relevant to the second matter is the number of days normal usage of diesel that can be held by TC locally, and how much of that is currently in stock. Anyone able to clarify?

[Barry Drive]

Relevant to the second matter is the number of days normal usage of diesel that can be held by TC locally, and how much of that is currently in stock. Anyone able to clarify?

Funny you should ask. Chris Steel addressed this in the Legislative Assembly yesterday.

As already mentioned, TC have a contract with Park Fuels (from Albion Park Rail) who directly import diesel from Japan and Korea. This contract has reached its end of life and a new tender has already closed for the next contract. (Of interest, but off topic, prior to Park Fuels, I recall seeing BP tankers delivering to Belconnen Depot.)

Belconnen and Tuggeranong Depot hold up to 10 days worth of fuel, and get restocked 5 days a fortnight (Belconnen) and 4 days a fortnight (Tuggeranong) - Tuggeranong can accommodate larger delivery tankers than Belconnen.

Woden Depot had limited diesel supply, but once their last Scanias left they no longer hold any fuel. However TC are considering using the Woden Depot tanks to hold some reserve diesel.

[Sylvan Loves Buses]

Trippled price is an unreliable forecast sometimes being guessed at in lay circles.

Not that I know anything about this, but the person who told me uses a VW van that takes diesel and they said they had to pay $6 per letre on thier last fill up. Must've been a very greedy servo they went to.

I'm going to continue reading the discussions regarding this issue anyway, some very interesting points coming through that I was not previously aware of.

[triumph]

Not that I know anything about this, but the person who told me uses a VW van that takes diesel and they said they had to pay $6 per letre on thier last fill up. Must've been a very greedy servo they went to.

I'm going to continue reading the discussions regarding this issue anyway, some very interesting points coming through that I was not previously aware of.

Must have filled up at some very remote outback location. I have filled up way back in 1963 in normal circumstances at such a location at close to triple the capital city price. So triple can be feasible, but not here in Canberra (yet).

[triumph]

Funny you should ask. Chris Steel addressed this in the Legislative Assembly yesterday.

As already mentioned, TC have a contract with Park Fuels (from Albion Park Rail) who directly import diesel from Japan and Korea. This contract has reached its end of life and a new tender has already closed for the next contract. (Of interest, but off topic, prior to Park Fuels, I recall seeing BP tankers delivering to Belconnen Depot.)

Belconnen and Tuggeranong Depot hold up to 10 days worth of fuel, and get restocked 5 days a fortnight (Belconnen) and 4 days a fortnight (Tuggeranong) - Tuggeranong can accommodate larger delivery tankers than Belconnen.

Woden Depot had limited diesel supply, but once their last Scanias left they no longer hold any fuel. However TC are considering using the Woden Depot tanks to hold some reserve diesel.

Ouch! Essentially 'just in time' with negligible cushion against any longer term disruption. Thanks for clarification.

[Barry Drive]

Ouch! Essentially 'just in time' with negligible cushion against any longer term disruption. Thanks for clarification.

I wouldn't call having up to 10 days storage "just in time". Maybe if it was 3 days.

They need enough storage to cater for long weekends and missed deliveries, so 10 days storage is more than enough. (The contract specifies a minimum storage level for each depot, but it's redacted in the published contract.)

The main problem is deliveries. If you check the contract, Park Fuels runs a double-tanker from Wollongong to Canberra daily to deliver fuel to the depots. This puts a constraint into how much can be delivered at one time, which is why they run 9 deliveries every fortnight. (They probably also vary the amount of fuel delivered depending on how much is in the tanks and estimated usage. I haven't seen anything mentioning how much diesel is used daily, other than 13 million litres annually.)

[triumph]

I wouldn't call having up to 10 days storage "just in time". Maybe if it was 3 days.

,,,,,

There was a period some decades back (1980s?) when there was a severe shortage. The rural local government I worked for was not impacted, as it carried several months supply. Any extended shut down of normal operations would have been disastrous, with flow on effects for the town and rural areas too.
Against this experience, 10 days seems very short and risky.

[Bus 400]

Looks like we have our first stag retirement, spotted one at Access Recycling this morning.

EDIT - Check the date

[L94UBbusfan]

Looks like we have our first stag retirement, spotted one at Access Recycling this morning.

EDIT - Check the date

Nearly had me there...

Although it is worth noting that the remaining 15 MAN CNGs have now been updated as withdrawn on Fleetwiki, which marks the end of CNG buses in Canberra after over 30 years (could be longer but I can't remember what the first CNG bus in Canberra was). Wonder how long it will take for them to rip out the CNG refilling facilities at Tuggeranong.

[Bus 400]

AFAIK, the CNG tank contract expires this year. 

I did notice a couple of CNG MAN on death row at Tuggy Depot. But there were still some of the CNG Scanias there too.

That brings me to another point. Does anyone know why there are a bunch of Renault's parked around Tuggy Depot not related to the trainers. At this rate they'll still be at Tuggy after the CNG buses have gone to scrap. 

[Sylvan Loves Buses]

Spare parts maybe?

[Barry Drive]

Wonder how long it will take for them to rip out the CNG refilling facilities at Tuggeranong.

Like everything else, it requires money. ACT Budget is in June - I would expect it will allocate funding to both remove the CNG compressor and to install additional charging equipment at Tuggeranong Depot.

(Oh, and the first CNG bus was 991 in 1993.)

Does anyone know why there are a bunch of Renault's parked around Tuggy Depot not related to the trainers.

Yes, spare parts. They will be kept at Tuggeranong for as long as they use Renaults as trainers. Either as parts donors or to swap out in case of a major failure.

[L94UBbusfan]

(Oh, and the first CNG bus was 991 in 1993.)

Thanks, I swore it was 990 or 991 but then I asked Google which said some Renault from 1984 was Canberra's first CNG bus, maybe better to not post at 12am next time 😂